freedoms

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  • thesightless
    Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
    • Jun 2004
    • 13567

    #31
    Re: freedoms

    thank you! it is way overblown and harped on based on principle. like i said the page before, they arent paying attention to paddy mcgee and shamus, but aiming to mohammed and sunil.
    your life is an occasion, rise to it.

    Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
    download that. deep shit listed there

    my dick is its own superhero.

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    • subterFUSE
      Gold Gabber
      • Nov 2006
      • 850

      #32
      Re: freedoms

      We weren't attacked because we have too many civil liberties, we were attacked because these folks are whack jobs who were willing to stop at nothing, including ending their own lives, to attack us.

      We were attacked by whack jobs who used our civil liberties against us.

      Comment

      • toasty
        Sir Toastiness
        • Jun 2004
        • 6585

        #33
        Re: freedoms

        Originally posted by subterFUSE
        We were attacked by whack jobs who used our civil liberties against us.
        please explain. Which of our civil liberties were exploited when those hijackers smuggled box cutters onto those planes, overtook the crew, and used the planes as weapons?

        Comment

        • thesightless
          Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
          • Jun 2004
          • 13567

          #34
          Re: freedoms

          im agreeing with jimbo here. while our "freedoms" were pushed, they were not truly violated.
          your life is an occasion, rise to it.

          Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
          download that. deep shit listed there

          my dick is its own superhero.

          Comment

          • subterFUSE
            Gold Gabber
            • Nov 2006
            • 850

            #35
            Re: freedoms

            Originally posted by toasty
            please explain. Which of our civil liberties were exploited when those hijackers smuggled box cutters onto those planes, overtook the crew, and used the planes as weapons?

            The terrorists entered the country legally, obtained flight training legally, were admitted through security carrying box-cutters (which at the time were not deemed weapons), and then hijacked planes.

            The point is, they used a number of the freedoms we have in this country in order to craft and carry out their plan.

            Comment

            • toasty
              Sir Toastiness
              • Jun 2004
              • 6585

              #36
              Re: freedoms

              Originally posted by subterFUSE
              The terrorists entered the country legally, obtained flight training legally, were admitted through security carrying box-cutters (which at the time were not deemed weapons), and then hijacked planes.

              The point is, they used a number of the freedoms we have in this country in order to craft and carry out their plan.
              So it's OK to wiretap phones without a warrant because the hijackers entered the country legally and found someone to teach them to fly (yet Bush still wants to relax immigration requirements -- 'splain that! )

              Sorry dude, no sale.

              Comment

              • subterFUSE
                Gold Gabber
                • Nov 2006
                • 850

                #37
                Re: freedoms

                Originally posted by toasty
                So it's OK to wiretap phones without a warrant because the hijackers entered the country legally and found someone to teach them to fly (yet Bush still wants to relax immigration requirements -- 'splain that! )

                Sorry dude, no sale.

                You are leaving out a critical point. It is OK to wiretap phone calls between the USA and middle-eastern countries, and involving people on our terrorism watch lists.

                Comment

                • toasty
                  Sir Toastiness
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 6585

                  #38
                  Re: freedoms

                  Originally posted by subterFUSE
                  You are leaving out a critical point. It is OK to wiretap phone calls between the USA and middle-eastern countries, and involving people on our terrorism watch lists.
                  nah, I'm just pointing out that you're trying to put a square peg in a round hole. You're saying that the terrorists took advantage of our civil liberties, which BTW are things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, etc., and I'm saying that's bullshit -- they took advantage of the the fact that we were a nation that would never see something like that coming.

                  and BTW, there's nothing wrong with tapping the phone of someone on the watch list who is calling the mid-east -- just get a warrant, at some point. I don't care how liberal the judge is, the warrant is going to issue.

                  Comment

                  • neoee
                    Platinum Poster
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 1266

                    #39
                    Re: freedoms

                    Originally posted by subterFUSE
                    We have to decide, as a country...... which scenario do we prefer.

                    1. No government surveilance, with increased threats of large-scale terror attacks.

                    2. A little bit of surveilance, with vastly decreased threat of attacks.

                    Sorry, but I feel less safe on both fronts. One, because there are more terrorists now than prior to Iraq and two because my appearance (East Indian) I am more likely to be profiled.

                    You talk of increased threats- in the US FAR more people die of obesity than the terrorist bogeyman. Far more of cancer, car accidents, etc. If your looking to save lives, let's start there.

                    And what happened to the foundations this country was built on?

                    Sorry but just like copy protection on software, this doesn't hurt the bad guys, only the honest people. IIRC correctly per the 9/11 commission report the terrorists were successful because they considered electronic communications unsafe and used other methods.

                    If someone really wants to stay under the radar, they will, provided they take the time and effort to do so. For instance if you want voice communications you can set up VoIP fully encrypted end to end. I run VoIP as my home line. I set my adapter up to automatically encrypt if the other end supports it. What about Steganography for sending messages? Sadly, the only people being snooped on are the less technically savvy.

                    Trust me, we deal with the big boys on occasion and we've had times where we sent over some encrypted files used by hackers and they were unable to break the encryption after a year. Hackers trying to hide their code or steal data use encryption, you think a terrorist who wants to hide his plot won't?

                    If you look back to recent plots that were uncovered you'll see that it wasn't due to random surveillance but to an inside person coming forward.
                    "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

                    Comment

                    • BSully828
                      Platinum Poster
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 1221

                      #40
                      Re: freedoms

                      Originally posted by neoee
                      One, because there are more terrorists now than prior to Iraq
                      Huh? How on earth do you know that?
                      Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not;
                      a sense of humor to console him for what he is.

                      Comment

                      • thesightless
                        Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 13567

                        #41
                        Re: freedoms

                        liberals know everything , you should know that.
                        your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                        Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                        download that. deep shit listed there

                        my dick is its own superhero.

                        Comment

                        • neoee
                          Platinum Poster
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 1266

                          #42
                          Re: freedoms

                          Originally posted by BSully828
                          Huh? How on earth do you know that?





                          Originally posted by thesightless
                          liberals know everything , you should know that.
                          No not really, it's the reading that helps.
                          "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

                          Comment

                          • thesightless
                            Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 13567

                            #43
                            Re: freedoms



                            playing advocate here for subterfuse.......
                            your life is an occasion, rise to it.

                            Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
                            download that. deep shit listed there

                            my dick is its own superhero.

                            Comment

                            • neoee
                              Platinum Poster
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 1266

                              #44
                              Re: freedoms

                              If your trying to prove my point, great job!

                              That was enough to raise a red flag with Darleen Crawford, president of the Nationwide Tractor Trailer Driving School in Smithfield, R.I., where Mullawala took driving classes.
                              Again this wasn't discovered by active monitoring but rather someone coming forward. Secondly, this person was not a citizen- he does not have the same rights as one. Also here is cause for a warrant to further an investigation.
                              "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

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