freedoms

[Localizer]

So I usually frequent a message board for Arizonan ravers and of course my responses in their serious chat have triggered a storm in which the hippies have gathered and have claimed that all our freedoms are leaving slowly. So my question to you is: Are our freedoms leaving us slowly? being chipped away?

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

no. gimme a link ASAP

[subterFUSE]

Re: freedoms

Aside from having to take my shoes off at airport security, I have encountered no ill-effects from any legislation following 9/11.

You have to just accept that when discussing politics in a music-related forum, you will always encounter a disproportionate number of liberals.... particularly ultra-left leaning liberals. It just comes with the territory. Creative arts people just tend to think that way more. You can't take it personally if you get ganged up when discussing a topic like this.

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

like i say "show me ONE SINGLE person who has been affected by the patriot act"

[toasty]

Re: freedoms

like i say "show me ONE SINGLE person who has been affected by the patriot act"

Jose Padilla?

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

yes, jose padilla, and for right cause i would think.

lets look

shot someone in roadrage in 91
assualt in 93
numerous detainments from gang activity in Chi-town
left here in 98, spent 5 years on the afghan/pakistani border....

hmmm........ criminal in terror hotspot..........

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

ill throw in the theory that he lived near tim mcveigh for awhile, and the ""second suspect" in the OK bombings bears an uncanny resembelence,

[toasty]

Re: freedoms

So my question to you is: Are our freedoms leaving us slowly? being chipped away?

It depends upon how you define freedom. Apart from some obvious changes to the flying process, we're still able to do pretty much the same shit we were able to do before Bush & 9/11, so in that respect, things are more or less unchanged. For those of us that like to be free from government intrusion in our lives, however, the landscape is quite different. Warrantless wiretaps, monitoring your comings and goings, archiving your phone records -- big brother is more a part of our lives than any time in my lifetime. Is that an encroachment on your freedom? I think so.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- it stuns me that so-called republicans, who claim to value things like civil liberties and advocate small government, are the ones that are always defending Bush on this shit.

[toasty]

Re: freedoms

yes, jose padilla, and for right cause i would think.

lets look

shot someone in roadrage in 91
assualt in 93
numerous detainments from gang activity in Chi-town
left here in 98, spent 5 years on the afghan/pakistani border....

hmmm........ criminal in terror hotspot..........

dude, just pulling your chain

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

right there lies the problem with media.

Warrantless wiretaps, monitoring your comings and goings, archiving your phone records

they ALWAYS did the latter pair, in reagrds to flying and phones, now it is publicized a lot more b/c of all the shit. they always kept phone records, but the providers are a lot less willing nowadays to hand them over. so it became a lawsuit.

the wiretaps are not on domestic to domestic calls, but on calls to foreign nations (read middle east and north africa). and i think they arent grabbing paddy mcgee calling shamus o toole, but mohammed calling moqtada in lahore.

[neoee]

Re: freedoms

the wiretaps are not on domestic to domestic calls...

Come on, you don't really believe that do you? If so you should really read up a bit more on the topic and talk to some of the people who have worked as telco techs.

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

or i can ask my relatives who work in the NYPD and FBI....

[toasty]

Re: freedoms

right there lies the problem with media.

they ALWAYS did the latter pair, in reagrds to flying and phones, now it is publicized a lot more b/c of all the shit. they always kept phone records, but the providers are a lot less willing nowadays to hand them over. so it became a lawsuit.

the wiretaps are not on domestic to domestic calls, but on calls to foreign nations (read middle east and north africa). and i think they arent grabbing paddy mcgee calling shamus o toole, but mohammed calling moqtada in lahore.

it's a matter of degree. They obviously made note of when you used your passport, but they didn't collect as much information about you as they do now. Domestic to domestic calls DO get tapped. And if you really trust your government that much, I guess I envy your naivety.

[toasty]

Re: freedoms

or i can ask my relatives who work in the NYPD and FBI....

the taps we're talking about would be out of their jurisdiction.

[thesightless]

Re: freedoms

FBI CT unit no longer has jurisddiction. they operate in many countries. but if you mean CIA, the CIA operates outside US borders. so who's jurisdiction u thinking????