hahaha douche. (chavez)

[Shpira]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

^^^you need "political re-education" ---lol

[Yao]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

No, Sean is right about that: if he works his ass off and makes 10 million a year, that is fine, even if I make only 200k a year. What I don't think is that that should mean that people that are willing but unable should be left to rot. I'm not saying give them everything, just provide a minimum living standard and above all, get them back to work again. I won't accept people living off my back, but I'll help those that genuinely need help.

[88Mariner]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

this is so goddamn hilarious. let's redefine capitalism as 'imperialism" and not tell anyone. well thanks for not sending me the memo.

capitalism hasn't been tried, not because of (again) the assumptions you make about what would happen based on a few progressive books you've read (and probably every movie you've ever watched), but because the government will not relenquish its power enough to let it occur. all of the major advances in modern civ are because of capitalism.

the more power the government has, the fewer liberties people have. economic liberties, civil liberties.

and free healthcare? there's no such thing. someone has to pay for it.

[Yao]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

Excuse me, but why the fuck would you doubt my sources? Could it not be that I have read enough and seen enough to simply have formed my opinion based on that? Why the hell eould your literature and sources be better than mine?

fuck you and you opinion, it doesn't matter anymore. you assume I haven't read jack shit and am just crying while maybe my opnion IS based on enough evidence and/or literature, and my be just as viable. I fucking hate people that think they are the ones that have read more than anyone about a certain subject. I'm done with this discussion, suit yourself.

[thesightless]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

and imperialism is more aimed at countries who acted like the english, french and spanish of the pre-american revolution, in that they control outside lands for thier own benifit, capitalism is geared more to a free, or extremely loosely monitored economy. socialism being a controlled economy.

and my tax return and net worth for my age dictate i dont need an re-education.

[Shpira]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

^^^Fucking hell...sorry to have hurt your pride, I was just joking! No one doubts that you are a true little pioneer of capitalism, marching ahead and making millions.
I don't know... I think I'll try and stay clear of the politics "discussions" on ms from now on.

[thesightless]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

avoid that, i think this thread alone shows you can have a civil chit chat and explanation of reason.

[Lorn]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

Capitalism is business. Forget about government. Its business that builds nations and people. Governments only know how to do one thing....take all the credit.

[rubyraks]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

wow, the amazing thing about this thread (now that I've finally read through the entire thing) is that:

a. Sean and Yao are generally in agreement (as am I)
b. Shpira consistently generalizes that America is a pure capitalist (or in his words, imperialist) system.

Shpira, do you even bother to read other people's posts? ...because it seems all that you argue is taken straight out of books and far left ones at that....Chomsky would be proud.

First, you seem to be missing the point that to different extents, both sightless and Yao are proposing a Capitalist/Socialist hybrid system (for as much as Sean hates hearing that ).

As for your book's theories, communism is an interesting idea, but leaves little in terms of free will and only truly succeeds when it destroys everything in its way. Hell, even the Chinese realized its limits and have taken on a much more capitalist attitude towards its economy (not that it was a true communist system either...before you point that one out). You almost make it sound like everyone's personal freedoms will be exponentially better under a communist system, rather than a capitalist system. You can't actually believe that, can you?

[Shpira]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

No...I am aware that I sound very very leftist and yes I was aware that Yeo and Sightless agree on some issues although Yeo seems to be marginally more socialist in many of his views ...I haven't really defined my own political position as a raving communist although I am a fan of some sort of strong government at least to begin with...as for Chomsky...well he is a good author to get your mind working.

I am sure of only one thing if the world is democratic/capitalist now then fuck it call me a anti-democrat. I don't really believe that Democracy works or that the governments want it to work well. It suits them to have politically uneducated populations which can be swayed either way at a flick of a TV channel i.e. a stupid population who reeds the sun and watches TV all the time...this gives them control to use for their own gain.

P.S. nothing that I argue is straight out of books I assure you of that...my view's are far too extreme even for books!!

N.B. I have never said that the US is Imperialist!!!! The whole west is Imerialist...NOT the USA

[Jenks]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

P.S. nothing that I argue is straight out of books I assure you of that...

Weren't you just having trouble earlier today copying and pasting from wiki for school?

and by "copying and pasting" i mean "plagiarizing"

[Shpira]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

^^^lol
It was a date...and a looooonnnnggg name in German

[rubyraks]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

I am sure of only one thing if the world is democratic/capitalist now then fuck it call me a anti-democrat. I don't really believe that Democracy works or that the governments want it to work well. It suits them to have politically uneducated populations which can be swayed either way at a flick of a TV channel i.e. a stupid population who reeds the sun and watches TV all the time...this gives them control to use for their own gain.

Wasn't your point about the evils of capitalism or are you now changing it to about democracy?

P.S. nothing that I argue is straight out of books I assure you of that...my view's are far too extreme even for books!!

Don't get too high on yourself there. I've read plenty of views that would make your own seem tame by comparison.

N.B. I have never said that the US is Imperialist!!!! The whole west is Imerialist...NOT the USA

Fair enough.

[Yao]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

this is so goddamn hilarious. let's redefine capitalism as 'imperialism" and not tell anyone. well thanks for not sending me the memo.

Alright, one last try: I wasn't even specifically referring to the colonizing part, but hey, why not include it. This still makes my argument viable, for a few reasons:

(1) capitalism the way it is in place nowadays is extractive and promotes inequality. Growth cannot come from nothing, something wil have to form the raw basis on which production can take place. Natural resources, and since they are abudant in places outside the West, it means the West will have to venture outside it's boundaries to get what it needs. This can be done by an imperialist system, but is not necessarily so, because (2) in many cases the West has promoted it's interests without invading and occupying a place, but rather by politics, backdoor politics, political pressure, economic pressure and blatant corruption. As far as I can tell those latter can all be part of an imperialist system but are not the definition of it. They are also parts of capitalism, but need not define it either.

Now where the hell did you get the idea that colonization was purely an imperialist phenomenon, rather than a symptom of a capitalist system looking for resources to fulfill it's needs? As far as I can see Imperialism has never been enough reason by itself for occupying territory, rather one of more instruments and in many cases a cover for the real reasons of occupation: mercantilism and capitalism. So, at the minimum of assumptions I'd say Imperialism has always been closely connected, maybe even intertwined with capitalism.

capitalism hasn't been tried, not because of (again) the assumptions you make about what would happen based on a few progressive books you've read (and probably every movie you've ever watched), but because the government will not relenquish its power enough to let it occur. all of the major advances in modern civ are because of capitalism.

And this is the part that really pissed me off. Incredible how easy you make assumptions on there whereabouts of what I know or state without ever having seen me or my bookcase. The government is all too often one of the biggest factors behind capitalism, just one of the players in the system, controlling it (China) or being controlled by it (USA). Look around you and think more than .4 seconds before insulting people.

[Localizer]

Re: hahaha douche. (chavez)

I glanced at the thread but here's my little diddy bout jack n diane - 1. socialist economies destroy health care as they prohibit specific services from being rendered. ie. yes, everyone get's healthcare, but say they need a surgery, one is now placed on a waiting list to receive that surgery. I wholly agree that everyone deserves healthcare, and I'm for a 2 tier system. Tier 1 to cover everyone and basic services regarding acute illnesses. Tier 2 are for people that can afford the healthcare and are willing to pay the high premiums of private insurers.
2. The fundamentals of the world's economies are based off philosphies - capitalism and free market as it pertains to say John Adam's Wealth of Nations, or Keynes, or even to an extreme, Karl Marx. The world's most notable economists have used these fundamentals to understand and predict future economic trends per their own philosophies. When it comes down to it, regarding any age old philosopher as non-applicable throws out the foundations of myriads of issues in our society. For example, there would be no chemistry which was derived from alchemy which was further derived from the pythagoreans view of earth, air, water, and fire, the sun and the moon.