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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
I'm not saying the reason's we went into Iraq were correct or valid, But raiding a consulate or whatever it was, for info from a country(IRAN) who has threatened us and our allies I think thats valid. I don't like the thought of being sent to Iraq for the orginal causes any more than you do, but to prevent a 10 fold sept 11from happenening I'm all down for it. I've got a lot of friends over there and if they are going to be there I'm sure they'd rather be accomplishing something then being sitting ducks for these pussy ass suicide bombers and IED's. If and when (most likely when) I get sent over there I would feel the same way.
And for your comment earlier about(... not all of you americans are stupid
) Nice!
" Focus on the subtleties and the world becomes grander"
- Me-Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
Maybe because we've already had two world wars and a couple of bloody conflicts (Balkan eg.) on our asses overhere. That's why we tend to try to solve things on a diplomatic level. Or at least think twice before we start bombing... Not attacking the US here, just pointing out the difference in perception.
True, but if there wasn't any oil, there wouldn't be any US troops getting shot there either...
A few reasons why it's the worst idea ever at this point:
1. It's only a consulate, no military structure. Even if you would bomb it flat, it doesn't affect Iran's striking capability.
2. Up until now Iran is involved behind the curtains. Attacking a consulate (which still is Iranian sovereign territory, just like the US embassy in Brussels is US soil) will force Iran to react (hit back?) openly. The last thing we need is Iranian troops crossing the border.
3. How is the US going to talk to Iran now about their nuclear program?
4. Same thing for the Palestinian conflict.
What the hell was the point of the attack anyway? Making a statement? Is that all? Not really the smartest way to do it if you ask me...
Americans aren't stupid, their president and the people around him just lack long term vision and realism... or their aim is in fact chaos in the region, which is even worse...Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
I totally understand what you're saying. But what if this raid actually uncovered files or records( like the article mentioned) of talks that would incriminate Iran when it comes to the nuke development issue, or maybe plans for other types of attacks.( now I know any government with sense would keep that shite underwraps but who knows) I know I'm sounding like an idealist ,but when you serve this country you kinda have to think like that, as a way of self motivation, if you know what I'm trying to say. And to your other statement about trying to get Iran to talk deals or whatever, knowing the little bit I know about amadenijad or however you spell it, Idon't think he will ever come to the table to talk, I think this is like a big f'n game to him and he'll play forever. I don't know thats just how I feel.
" Focus on the subtleties and the world becomes grander"
- Me-Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
oops i did it backwards, it's been a long day. my bad^^^^^^^^^" Focus on the subtleties and the world becomes grander"
- Me-Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
thats funny you mention that. The Army just raised the max age to 44yrs old for vollunteers, and my friend just got in the Army with a history of heart problems which they probably turned a blind eye to. or he just happened to some how leave out of the equation." Focus on the subtleties and the world becomes grander"
- Me-Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
I understand perfectly where you're coming from and I respect that. At least you're not swallowing everything with your eyes closed.
What if there were such documents... Ye well, what if indeed. It still wouldn't justify the attack and the capture of five Iranians. I mean, in our countries the police doesn't charge into houses without a warrant, do they? Moreover, I think the CIA has enough intel without having to raid a diplomatic post like this.
Ahmadinejad sitting down at a table to talk might be highly unlikely indeed. But a provocation like this isn't helping that either. On the contrary: Ahmadinejad can (ab)use this to gain more popularity in the region ("See what the American Way and Western Democracy really stand for? If we don't put our foot down, they will colonize the entire ME...") or he can use this as a justification to invade Iraq himself. Now what are +/- 130.000 US troops going to do if they have to fight those guys as well?
And that's just the reaction of Teheran I'm talking about. I don't want to know how Al Quaida, Hamas, Hezbollah and others are going to react to it.
Imo it's time to put an end to the polarization which is being fueled by both sides. Peace talks and reconcilliation is the only solution if you ask me... But unfortunately there are economical cards in this poker game as well...Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
Hasn't this approach been tried time and time again? I know that Europe has been shell-shocked from having two world wars that devastated the continent (and rightfully so), but exactly at which point are they ever willing to pick up their arms and do something about it. Talk talk talk...it seems is the only approach that Europe finds acceptable.
And I'm far from a gun-toting American, but at some point diplomacy fails and that has to be recognized. I hate war as much as the next guy, but it does become an unnecessary evil at times.
With all that said, I'm still willing and hoping to be wrong so please give examples where diplomacy has actually succeeded when dealing with cultures other than our own (hence Ireland is out). I'm all ears."Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Live like it's Heaven on Earth."Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
The EU has always been against the invasion, so that's why we're leaving our guns in the closet. When we asked the US not to attack Iraq, the only response the Bush administration had, was "Fine, we'll do this ourselves, we don't need y'all." Ye well, it might be a bit harsh, but I guess you guys are still on your own when it comes to military effort in Iraq.
Secondly, since the EU is a union of different cultures and languages, I guess dialogue for us is a fundamental tool to solve conflicts.
Very true, you won't hear me nagging about when NATO jets bombed the shit out of the Serbs when they were wiping out entire muslim villages in Kosovo and Bosnia. At a certain point there's no option other than military action. But diplomacy never got a chance in Iraq: Bush charged in like a raging bull while Saddam kept on repeating he had no WMD's. Unfortunately he was speaking the truth, turning the invasion into an unnecessary war apart from an illegal one.And I'm far from a gun-toting American, but at some point diplomacy fails and that has to be recognized. I hate war as much as the next guy, but it does become an unnecessary evil at times.
Tough one... While I'm thinking, could you find examples after WWII where war/military action solved a problem and at least one party could call itself victor?With all that said, I'm still willing and hoping to be wrong so please give examples where diplomacy has actually succeeded when dealing with cultures other than our own (hence Ireland is out). I'm all ears.
I think that if Bush would've continued with the peace process which Clinton got going in Palestina, we wouldn't be in such a mess right now. Ahmadinejad is a demagogue, but he's right about one thing: all the problems in the ME are tied together and the knot lies between Israel and Palestina...Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
I'm not going to take up the issue of Iraq, because essentially we're on the same page there. I never wanted that war to begin with for geopolitical reasons that are quite apparent now...better to be with the tyrant you know than one you don't.
Couldn't agree more and the US has been in the position for a damn long time where we're pretty good at isolating ourselves and sometimes it shows horribly.
Yeah I hear you, not the easiest to name either...the only thing militarily that's been accomplished is installing other tyrants that were in our interests...see latin america and far east asia.
I'll agree with you on continuing the peace process would have helped matters out quite a bit...hell just showing an interest would've been better, but to think that Israel/Palestine is the solution to the middle east is playing it blind. You're falling for the same smokescreen that every leader in that region would like you to see. They continue to persecute their people and take advantage of them economically and as long as everyone blames it on Israel and the US, they could do what they want. Do you really think that would solve it? What's going on in Iraq is not because of Israel and Palestine. It is merely the wounds of a power struggle that has been going on in that region for a long time."Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Live like it's Heaven on Earth."Comment
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Re: Shit has just hit the fan in Iraq
I don't think it's the magical solution to everything, but if Israel and Palestina could come to an agreement / plan under the lead of the US, it would give the US a lot of credit in the region instead of the image of colonizators...
Btw: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS...ran/index.htmlComment
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