All this talk about Iran...

[Localizer]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

In response:


1. The USA has so much more WMD capability, it's not even funny.

2. So you don't think the United Nations should have any weight in global affairs? OK.... fine. I agree with you 100%. So let's disband the UN, then.... because if it isn't going to have any bearing, why even have it in the first place?

3. The issue of benefits to Iraqi people depend largely on who you ask. Certainly the sunni people are not very happy. But the Kurds and Shi'a populations are quite happy to have Saddam gone.

4. About oil? You bet your fucking ass it's about oil. And I'm fucking glad someone is worried about it..... because oil is the single most important factor to human life on this planet...... PERIOD. Without oil, we die..... end of story. This isn't some joke.... oil is like the lifeblood of the modernized world. Every time I listen to someone complain about "no blood for oil" I just laugh... because they don't even get it. They don't understand how important oil is to our world. If you cut off our oil supplies tomorrow, it would be less than 1 week before this planet descended into total anarchy. Millions and millions of people would die, from starvation and exposure to the elements. Economies would collapse. It would be the end of the world. So..... yeah.... we're fighting over oil. And I'm fucking glad we are, because I want to keep living.

The imperialist is strong with you, padawan.

[Bululu]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

YOU WANT TO KEEP LIVING Over the fucking dead bodys of other people you dick head ?????

[subterFUSE]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

YOU WANT TO KEEP LIVING Over the fucking dead bodys of other people you dick head ?????

Don't act like you are all pure and innocent. You live in Europe. If you didn't have access to oil, your fate would be identical to what I described.

I'm just being honest about the situation. Oil is so important, we can't hardly begin to fathom what life would be like without it.

[Shpira]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

Lets keep it civilized boys and girls...

I mean none of us have any more rights than the other one...so relax...
Fuck me some people I swear...

Its just a matter of opinion so calm down...

This is a global issue which effects everyone...I personally wouldn't like/prefer to go to war rather than pay some extra dollar per barrel but hey its my oppinion...I'm not necessarily right to think so and maybe the govt are doing whats best for us and not for the arms or car manufacturers and the oil companies.

Maybe its all just a big coincidence that Iran has just bought 25 F-16 (made in the USA) fighter plane's and that haliburton got all the reconstruction of Iraq contracts which it sales (yes sales) to the highest bidder...



Good luck trying to find an adequate answer to this little baby...

[Bululu]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

Dear subter ,for my daily consumption of gas I pay twice the price that you pay to drive your beautiful polluting SUV in the US , did I say my government needs togo to war to make price cheaper for me ?????

[subterFUSE]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

Dear subter ,for my daily consumption of gas I pay twice the price that you pay to drive your beautiful polluting SUV in the US , did I say my government needs togo to war to make price cheaper for me ?????

Gas for cars is only 1 of the many uses industrialized nations have for oil. Nearly every product bought or sold gets tied back to petroleum consumption in some form.

Ever watch the stock market? Have you ever noticed how oil prices have an inverse relationship with many stocks for manufacturing companies? If oil prices drop, the stock prices for many companies go up.... and vice-versa. Why is that? It's because the price of oil affects the costs of production, which affects profitability.

Oil is used for heating. It's used in manufacturing almost everything we use. Without oil, were are all in serious trouble. Not being able to drive our cars is just one problem among many, many worse ones. Oil is probably the single most important resource to life in the modern world. It is scary to think about the consequences of a crash in supply. During the 1970s oil embargo, the price spiked only a few % points.... but the economic effect was the biggest downturn since the Great Depression. Just try to imagine what might happen if prices increased by a huge amount?

Yes.... you pay more for fuel. And you live in a small country, so you probably drive shorter distances. But do you also eat food each day? You live in Switzerland, so I'll bet you have to consume energy to heat your home. I assure you that many of the basic things you use throughout your daily life are dependant upon oil at some stage. That's the point I'm making. Even if you don't own a car, oil still affects you. About the only way oil doesn't affect someone is if they live in some isolated corner of the world with no technology. Maybe some deserted island in the Pacific, which has been untouched by man.

[Lorn]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

All dem there plastic bottles too.

[subterFUSE]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

All dem there plastic bottles too.

Yep. Just about any manufacturing process is affected by oil.


Check out this little example: Watch the stock price of XOM (ExxonMobil) vs. MMM (3M) or NWL (NewellRubbermaid).

Almost guaranteed to see an inverse relationship with oil prices. If oil prices go up, then MMM and NWL go down. And the roles reverse if the price of oil drops.

[Bululu]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

Ok a little listen stock market lesson from mr Subter again , before I continue arguing with you , a thing which I did with alot of people before you sir on this board, all your plastic products justify the lives of 100's dieing everyday because you sir want to keep on living and enoying your hamburger inside a plastic container and drinking your coke from a plastic bottel ??? a simple answer of YES or NO would be enough so I can start really debating with you because up until now , your stocks and wanting to keep on living arguments are plain bullshit for me .

[subterFUSE]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

Ok a little listen stock market lesson from mr Subter again , before I continue arguing with you , a thing which I did with alot of people before you sir on this board, all your plastic products justify the lives of 100's dieing everyday because you sir want to keep on living and enoying your hamburger inside a plastic container and drinking your coke from a plastic bottel ??? a simple answer of YES or NO would be enough so I can start really debating with you because up until now , your stocks and wanting to keep on living arguments are plain bullshit for me .

You are trivializing the issue. You seem to think that I'm talking only about having luxury items, when this isn't the case at all.

We all need oil for so many basic necessities in our lives.... you included. It's about heating the homes of millions of people, who otherwise might die from cold. It's about getting food and water to millions of people who might otherwise die without it. It powers the economies on which our very societies are built. The list goes on and on... but you don't seem to get the big picture.

[Bululu]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

Still avoiding my asnwer ( god everytime I decide not to argue again about this subject it happens again) , let's start from the very first begining , if you don't have something you don't go and take it from the others by force right ?? you buy it , am I right about this ?

[toasty]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

We all need oil for so many basic necessities in our lives....

OK, this is true, oil is a critical part of our existence. We are, in the words of the president, "addicted" to oil. The real question, though, is do we just feed the symptoms of that addiction by going and getting more of it, or do we attack the problem at its root by trying to figure out ways to make the things we want to make and do the things we want to do through other means?

Personally, I think it's high time we did the latter. Our dependence upon oil puts us in a real bind at times. People other than environmentalists ought to care about our use of oil, because it forces us to engage a part of the world that seems to be populated by people that hate us.

We can continue to shrug our shoulders and go bomb the most feeble country that has oil when we need it, or we can actually do something innovative and tell the MidEast to kiss our collective ass.

[Bululu]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

^^^^^ Add to that all the climate change that is happening right now , this is only the begining , Money spent on brining DEMOCRACY to Iraq should have been invested on R&D to find better solutions, but Mr Haliburton will loose Stock value so no for R&D and yes for War , its time to fucking act and find real solutions.

[thesightless]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

james, please say something with an opinion in it. stop dancing around it. lets have it. i can find the facts, what do you think the solution is? and "i dont know" or "long term dialogue" isnt a valid answer.

at this time, the economic, social, military, religious, and relationship factors regarding the middle east are so far beyond the point of waiting and talking. some form of action is required. not a full blown war, but two options do indeed exist. at least two.
1. keep up a military pressure, but not the bush/rumsfeld type. think MacAurthur.
2. as in a different post, make Oil For Food take on a whole new level. make them realize how much they need us as we need oil. bump the trade tariffs, and export regualtions to a level where they HAVE to loosen up the grip on oil. starve them out of feeling like they have power. the region cannot supply itself with enough wheat and grain and other vital necessities to survive, so play a peaceful waiting game, but dont give in. make it get to the point where a shipment of bread is worth a barrell of oil. and stop allowing our businesses to invest there. no more mcdonalds, no more music, movies, nothing, cut them off from the world and leave them with the choices to a. die alone or b. step up and work with the rest of the planet, which btw, hasnt a major war in a long time and seems to be working together hand in hand with repsect to each society and government. example, commie china deals quite well imperialist america, both benifit, tensions are solved quikly.

and people stop ignoring the fact that the whole region is, always will be, and always has been a giant clusterfuck for the last 1700 years. i forget who said that the muslims were working hand in hand with europe and bolstering science, but i think mike moore syndrome popped its head in there. yes, i hate to coin the religion as a whole, but its time to call it like it is. maybe if we opt for choice 2 up there, they will be forced to clean thier own house when EVERYONE turns thier back and money on the region.'


and bululu, you threw out hallibruton. bro, they are a contracted construction firm specializing in oil rig safety. they arent even that big of a company on the world stage. they are a focuses company that, by happenstance, has dick cheney working for them 25 years ago. they were involved in the middle east then, and they will be involved later, they workd everyone on the planet. stop thinking they are working behind the scenes, inserting governments so they can nail down a multi million dollar operating deal. they dont keep the oil, they just operate rigs. most of the time, the profits form the oil they touch, go to the homecountry or landowner of the oil source. i.e. iran, iraq, mexico, canada......

[runningman]

Re: All this talk about Iran...

I already know the solution us or them.. just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it isn't real..


Also I think the USA Canada Great Britain and Mexico should join together and call it the United Union of the West or something. Make it known its us vs. them..