hmmmm more fear

[Shpira]

Re: hmmmm more fear

what is preventing NK or Iran from "losing" a warhead and allowing it to fall into the hands of groups who already tried to obtain them? i know, i know, conspiracy theory, but its not like we havnt seen bad shit happen before.....

Nothing...and the same thing applies to any lone individual who has a disliking for the US or any other country that does not mean that we should kill everyone to prevent them from killing us...

There is an illusion of security (or insecurity) but in reality to do something like that would be quite easy with enough finance...the only question would be does anyone really benefit from doing something like that?!

The only way to prevent it would be to either make sure that it is known that if something like that happened retaliation would be swift and merciless or to make sure you are on good terms with anyone who could do that..

[Miroslav]

Re: hmmmm more fear

Clearly, a missile defense shield is not going to protect the US from terrorists who smuggle stuff inside the borders. As for its intended use to oppose nations such as North Korea and Iran, I'm a bit split on that... Mutually assured destruction worked well as a nuclear deterrent thoughout the 80s...

[KinKyJ]

Re: hmmmm more fear

^^^ correctemundo. The only situation it would be useful in is when terrorists seize an icbm silo plus the launch codes. Probability: the same as having two Thursdays in one week.

[Shpira]

Re: hmmmm more fear

How can you be so blind...this has nothing to do with terorists...its a direct attack on Russia's capabilities...its just a threat because Putsky has been fucking around quite a bit lately...

[KinKyJ]

Re: hmmmm more fear

I know that you Serbs are buddies with the ruskis, buy fyi the cold war has ended when the Berlin Wall came down. So why (re)launch the idea of a missile shield now? The Russians never fired a nuke because of M.A.D. plus they don't even have a clue where half of their warheads have gone by now...

With rogue nations the Bush admin means countries like NK and Iran. But in reality (like I stated before) it's nothing more but giving presents to aeronautical industry and what not lobby groups

[Shpira]

Re: hmmmm more fear

yeah I know...but I'm telling you Bush is getting pissed of at Putin for supporting "terrorists" and anti US govt but he can't criticize him publicly because he knows that Putin will tell him to fuck off basicly...why do you think that all the shit I mentioned that he has done has not been showed on the news in the west?! Because people would protest and the govt would be incapable of doing much!

I don't really have the same opinion as most of the people with my nationality handicap and I am more than aware that Russians are not our friends they just use that idea when it suits their own means as they always have...

I know that the cold war as such ended but there is still a lot of tenssion...if you ask any Russian they will tell you they despise the US...I have lived in Russia for a while and I go there quite often as half of my family lives there...I have many friends who are Russian who keep me up to date with Putsky's new adventures...

So in short...that idea is being relaunched for the following:
weapons sold to Iran (anti-aircraft --S.A.M.'s)
weapons to Lebanon (Katusha's for attacking Israel)
weapons sold to Venezuela (100-000 AK-107 and 25 su-37)

All of these things were kept silent in the west right??? Why...if it was some other smaller country that had done this they would have been under an embargo and passably bombed!

[Lorn]

Re: hmmmm more fear

The big boys come out to play.

[Miroslav]

Re: hmmmm more fear

I doubt that it is solely aimed at Russia...although it is certainly pissing them off, and there's always the potential for escalating tensions between the two nations. This missile defense thing is not new; it has already been running in the background for quite some time now, before the latest round of drama with Putin. My best guess is that the administration really does intend this against Iran and North Korea and other smaller nations that may get the bomb. Something along the lines of: sure, MAD worked well for the Cold War, but technology has progressed, so why not harness it?

But crazy as those nations may see, I don't really see the whole concept of MAD as being obsolete, as Jan also pointed out... It's when we don't have a clear target to strike back at that we're in trouble with our nuclear deterrent.

[Shpira]

Re: hmmmm more fear

ICBMs from Korea would go the other way around the world as for Iran...puting defense in Israel (which is there already) would be far more effective... don't you agree?
which leaves us only the Russkies to worry about? Right?

[Shpira]

Re: hmmmm more fear

In addition I think it possible that Russia's military presence might be invited into Venezuela by Chavez...

[KinKyJ]

Re: hmmmm more fear

weapons sold to Iran (anti-aircraft --S.A.M.'s)
weapons to Lebanon (Katusha's for attacking Israel)
weapons sold to Venezuela (100-000 AK-107 and 25 su-37)

None of these are weapon systems which need to be countered with a missile shield costing brazilions of dollars.

Russian troops in Venezuela would give Hugo a hard on, but that will never happen (just think of the Cuba missile crisis)

[Lorn]

Re: hmmmm more fear

^True that.

[Shpira]

Re: hmmmm more fear

Man I am really getting tired...I know none of those are weapons which require the US to build shit in Poland!!!
But consider this, Putin is supposed to be a strong president (or so he is perceived by most Russians). They (the Russkies) still have a grudge against the US and the average Russian still feels that the US is an enemy. Now how does this make Putin look if the US builds that missile shield???
Just look what he did in Georgia when their president just said he wanted to join the EU he fucking practically occupied the whole country!!!

Its pretty clear that you folks don't quite get some of the implications behind all this...I don't think I get them all...but if you look at things the way you are (no reason to build the shield) than there is no reason for the US to even have ICBMs or most of its military equipment...the simple truth is that the Cold war as a direct arms race might have ended between the communists and the capitalists but the nevertheless there is still a lot tension almost like a second cold war...
but not really its just a natural state of things in world politics...i.e. anarchy on the global level...survival of the fittest if you will.

This has always been this way and it will always stay...

As for the Cuban missile crisis...this is similar, however I was not talking of putting ICBMs there but a simple base...similar to the ones the US has in Turkey, Japan, England, Germany...the list goes on.

So why wouldn't they build it...because this shield will not be build...because neither of the establishments can really afford an escalation of that kind (the US has its hand already too stretched across the world and Russia is not yet financially capable for that).

Soon though US power WILL be chalanged either by the Chinese or the Russians and it will result in some kind of a change...


There is where my only FEAR of politics lies when that happens the shit is really going to hit the fan and this thread will earn its name.

[subterFUSE]

Re: hmmmm more fear

Putin wants a second cold war. The guy is ex-KGB. He wants a return to the days of Soviet control. He is stamping out freedom of speech, executing members of the press and other critics, and taking government control over media outlets. He is slowly working back towards the days of communism.

[Morgan]

Re: hmmmm more fear

To you'll need the radar and intercept bases well away from the homeland to have a good few tries at interception - just in case . I would expect the whole world to have coverage of radar and intercepts, just to gain maximum chance of sucess, you must release how difficult sucessful interception is at speed and height.

As for the airbourne threat, just ask Davetlv. I'm sure he would agree there is a minmal threat of rocket attacks! We have seen the start of more powerful and longer range weapons beign used in the middle east, how long will it take for more advanced weaponry to be passed to terrorists? How long for them to spread?

I do agree a sumggled warhead is the greatest threat, especially worring due to the Eastern European porus boarders.

As for Putin, he will never be a threat to world peace. He will be gone soon enough and another mob leader will emerge. Russia i suspect will apply pressure in more capitalist ways, oil and gas reserves they have will give them leverage. When they start buying engery distribution grids in Europe and across the world that will give them the commercial power they crave, you mess with them your population freezes this winter, your ecomany fails and you suddlenly find all your industries and commercial sectors bought out at rock bottom prices, thats right by the Russian Mafia rich on oil, gas and football.