Good news from Iraq!

[chuckc]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

Lets not forget that the terroists attacked us first. (dont forget they bombed wtc in 1993, and the uss cole)

Dont get me wrong, it was the wrong idea to invade iraq especially with no hard evidence.........
but we did invade and our soldiers are trying there best to provide them with a safe democracy...the troops deserve more respect.

but time is running out imo...its a tough deal bcuz if we do leave...the violence wil multipy expodentially. and iraq will be the headquaters for terror. the world will be changed and freedom will be lost.

[Localizer]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

^^^^ Did the Iraqi people ask you to give them that ????? did tyhey actually came and asked the AMerican governement to do that ???? why didn't your governement go somewhere else where people are in deeper shit ?? Africa ??? South East Asia ( Burma for example )??? Tibet where a culture is being erased by the Chinese governement ) ???? Stop trying to find excuses for this murderous and evil envasion pleasee, hundreds of thousdans of people died until now and if you keep up with this reasinong and wasting time to find excuses hundreds of thousands will die also , 4.5 Million people are refugees because of your dirty war, women that were students in Iraqi universities are prostituting in neighbouring countries, and you are telling me we had to give Iraqi people their freedom, fuck that freedom.

Wow, you completely missed the point of his post. You're just raving and ranting without even understanding what people are trying to say.

[Bululu]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

Sorry threehills, my mistake, but seriously , i am sick of people trying to give a meaning to this invasion , what has Iraq todo with the attacks on the US ??? if any country should have been targeted it should be Saudi Arabia who started all this fundamentalist ideology and tried to implement in many other Arabic countries ( Egypt, Alegeria for example) before Al Qaeda could stand alone of its feet.

The war is worng and you can ask in Iraqi which era do they prefer? the pre or post Saddam ?

[toasty]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

but we did invade and our soldiers are trying there best to provide them with a safe democracy...the troops deserve more respect.

Whoa, whoa, whoa -- who said anything about not respecting the troops?!?!?!?!? Sorry dude, but this is my hot button. Supporting our troops and supporting this boondoggle of a war are two entirely different things, and I thought we were beyond this ridiculous notion that they were the same. Matter of fact, if anyone is disrespecting the troops, its the architects of this war who have placed them in the midst of an ever-growing maelstrom with no idea what they were going to do when they got there. I have fucking had it with the handful of Bush apologists out there who still insist that it is unpatriotic to question the war.

Lets not forget that the terroists attacked us first. (dont forget they bombed wtc in 1993, and the uss cole)
...
but time is running out imo...its a tough deal bcuz if we do leave...the violence wil multipy expodentially. and iraq will be the headquaters for terror. the world will be changed and freedom will be lost.

Been watching Fox News, perchance? FFS, you've managed to hit all the talking points at once...

[Localizer]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

^ I would say I support the troops, however even I'm reaching my end in terms of 'supporting the troops'. If there's anything Milgrim, Hitler, Pinochet, Stalin, and Mao have taught us, it's blind obedience. IMO, soldiers need to start to wake up and address the real issues rather than sitting there dumbfounded with the typical common reply of 'protecting freedoms.' Of course, the issue of soldier's questioning authority is illegal (according to military statutes) however, blind obedience is very deadly, and I'm sure many people who have lived through those eras know the devastation that blind obedience can cause.

[Miroslav]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

^ I would say I support the troops, however even I'm reaching my end in terms of 'supporting the troops'. If there's anything Milgrim, Hitler, Pinochet, Stalin, and Mao have taught us, it's blind obedience. IMO, soldiers need to start to wake up and address the real issues rather than sitting there dumbfounded with the typical common reply of 'protecting freedoms.' Of course, the issue of soldier's questioning authority is illegal (according to military statutes) however, blind obedience is very deadly, and I'm sure many people who have lived through those eras know the devastation that blind obedience can cause.

I'd say it's just not within the nature of a society's military function to start selectively questioning which orders they will accept and which they will refuse. You just wouldn't have much of a military if that were the case. Soldiers are trained to destroy stuff and kill people when and where their leaders tell them to. That's their job description. The whole system has to function under the premise is that if their leader gives them the command, then that command is in fact based on the best and most legitimate interest of "protecting freedoms".

The people who really need to do the waking up are the rest of us - the overwhelming majority at whose ultimate behest the soldiers do their jobs, and the ones with the voting power to elect people into office who wield the responsibility of military might appropriately.

[Localizer]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

I'd say it's just not within the nature of a society's military function to start selectively questioning which orders they will accept and which they will refuse. You just wouldn't have much of a military if that were the case. Soldiers are trained to destroy stuff and kill people when and where their leaders tell them to. That's their job description. The whole system has to function under the premise is that if their leader gives them the command, then that command is in fact based on the best and most legitimate interest of "protecting freedoms".

The people who really need to do the waking up are the rest of us - the overwhelming majority at whose ultimate behest the soldiers do their jobs, and the ones with the voting power to elect people into office who wield the responsibility of military might appropriately.

I concur, however, our soldiers need to understand the difference between fighting a war and fighting for interests. The fall of many great empires was due in part to extending armed forces beyond their capabilities. To think of countrymen as robots is scary; I can only imagine what they would be like if martial law was proliferated throughout the country. Could you stand eye-to-eye, face-to-face in front a soldier and question his/her authority then?

Secondly, whether we vote or not is of no importance because the government will move in the way they see fit. They do it by inches though, rather than by feet, slowly creeping over our lines.

In the end, I think many have woken up; it's that only a few want to take action. Of course I'll be eating my words as I'll be taking up a clandestine new job with a market that I squint my eyes at.

[threehills]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

If there's anything Milgrim, Hitler, Pinochet, Stalin, and Mao have taught us, it's blind obedience. IMO, soldiers need to start to wake up and address the real issues rather than sitting there dumbfounded with the typical common reply of 'protecting freedoms.' Of course, the issue of soldier's questioning authority is illegal (according to military statutes) however, blind obedience is very deadly, and I'm sure many people who have lived through those eras know the devastation that blind obedience can cause.

I sorta agree, sorta disagree. I think you would have a totally valid arguement if the leadership were asking our troops to lead the iraqi population into the gas chambers. However, the soldiers in reality are not being asked to do anything above or beyond what one would consider "normal" soldiering. Patroling, egnaging in firefights, gathering intelligence, policing occupied areas. Sure they risk their lives every day, but is that not part of the job description?

What if a police officer was like, "well this whole war on drugs thing really isn't working out so hot. It's not worth me risking my life to take down this dope dealer, so I'm just gonna go get a donut instead."

If you allowed a solidier to question the "why" behind every order, the military would collapse.

[WaveSculptor]

Re: Good news from Iraq!

Some of the troops are nice lower-middle-class American kids trying to get professional training or pay for tuition that their families could never afford. Others are aspiring politicians putting in their military service for PR purposes down the road. Still others are racist bastards who got tired of their video games and decided to try blowing away some real people for a change. There is a complex social dynamic where you have some soldiers performing genuine humanitarian efforts, while others are doing the kinds of things that make America look like the land of imperialist bigots. Both are happening every day, providing the world's media with ample opportunity to portray the conflict in whichever light they prefer.

Our troops...
Some of them are heroes who deserve our respect.
Some of them are neutral bodies in uniform, awaiting transfer back to their homes and families.
Some of them are terrorists themselves,
Others worse.

All things considered, I say bring them home and develop a support program to assist the area's political refugees in surviving or escaping the ensuing civil war. We've already funnelled billions into the coffers of our development firms, we've already built trans-national pipelines in an attempt to secure economic footholds in the region...It's time to stop tinkering with their government and let them create their own, like we did. If we truly care about democracy, it really is the least we can do..

Thx for the 1st post nomination J
just wish I could have been on top of this 5 years ago.
I could feel it happening and watched in amazement & horror...
yet there was nothing I could do...I for one am ashamed.