Immigration Reform!?

[Who?]

So now our government is talking about immigration reform. We can't even show that we can control the border - we might as well just knock down the crappy fence we have now and roll out the red carpet. Forget the people who want to enter legally into our country - we don't want you. We aren't dealing with an immigration problem, we are dealing with an exodus problem. Already there are areas of Mexico around the border where the towns are empty except for women and children. All of the men are in America illegally working and sending the money back to Mexico.

In Dallas, TX, the county hospital is paying millions upon millions of taxpayers money to cover the costs of medical care for illegal immigrants. There is no benefit to Americans in having undocumented workers in the country. Big corporations enjoy large profits based off of low wages paid to these workers all the while justifying it by saying 'They work in jobs that Americans don't want to work in.' I would believe that if every single American actually had the opportunity to choose their employment. I am sure there are some Americans out there who are unemployed who are wanting work but are losing out to illegal immigrants instead of having the opportunity that was promised to them because they live here in America. I know there are exceptions to the rule, I'm not saying everyone who is unemployed wants to work. We do have leeches on the welfare system who will never want to break away from the free check (that is another rant all together).

We Americans all pay for this in the long run. We are told that having low paid workers keeps prices down - I don't see it. Inflation is still skyrocketing in food and other necessities, not going down or staying flat. All who are benefiting are the corporate directors with their large bonuses which only get larger as the years pass.

We should not be thinking of reforming the immigration policy until we can control the influx of persons into our country illegally. Amnesty only promises that illegals can come over and there is no punishment for breaking the law. Allowing businesses a free ticket to pay these workers under the table, tax-free, is absurd. They don't help our economy - they send the money back to Mexico or wherever they are from (Central/South America).

This effects the value of our dollar - the national debt is growing like cancer and if approx. 20 million people aren't paying taxes (plus companies ducking out to avoid them as well... Halliburton) pretty soon all we will have is green paper that is only good for wiping our ass. I can remember when I started buying music in the electronica music genre, I was getting vinyl from the UK and the currency exchange was approx. $1.20 to every UK pound - now it's $2 for every pound. This is been in only the last 6 years!!! I can also remember when the dollar was worth more than the Euro, again only 6 years ago. Granted we can download from places like Beatport but that's beside the point in this argument.

At some point the American public needs to take back their country from the corporations. This country was founded on the ideal, 'for the people, by the people.' We have turned the corner and now live by the 'make the highest profit' ideal. They have bought their way into the government and we no longer have a voice. There are clauses in our constitution that allow us to take back our country it's just that so many of us are too afraid or too uneducated (or don't care to make a difference) to do anything about it.

We are losing our country on a daily basis and I hate to be pessimistic but if there is not a change in the way we do things, 'superpower' will be a distant memory in our vocabulary.

[88Mariner]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

why not take back our country from the government? Is it not the government who is to enforce laws? And if they don't do thier job...

[Erik Mitchell]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

I know that someday I will be living in Canada.

[KinKyJ]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

the national debt is growing like cancer

Why don't you blame that on your cummander-in-mischief?

[Localizer]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

In Dallas, TX, the county hospital is paying millions upon millions of taxpayers money to cover the costs of medical care for illegal immigrants. There is no benefit to Americans in having undocumented workers in the country. Big corporations enjoy large profits based off of low wages paid to these workers all the while justifying it by saying 'They work in jobs that Americans don't want to work in.' I would believe that if every single American actually had the opportunity to choose their employment. I am sure there are some Americans out there who are unemployed who are wanting work but are losing out to illegal immigrants instead of having the opportunity that was promised to them because they live here in America. I know there are exceptions to the rule, I'm not saying everyone who is unemployed wants to work. We do have leeches on the welfare system who will never want to break away from the free check (that is another rant all together).

We Americans all pay for this in the long run. We are told that having low paid workers keeps prices down - I don't see it. Inflation is still skyrocketing in food and other necessities, not going down or staying flat. All who are benefiting are the corporate directors with their large bonuses which only get larger as the years pass.

We should not be thinking of reforming the immigration policy until we can control the influx of persons into our country illegally. Amnesty only promises that illegals can come over and there is no punishment for breaking the law. Allowing businesses a free ticket to pay these workers under the table, tax-free, is absurd. They don't help our economy - they send the money back to Mexico or wherever they are from (Central/South America).

This effects the value of our dollar - the national debt is growing like cancer and if approx. 20 million people aren't paying taxes (plus companies ducking out to avoid them as well... Halliburton) pretty soon all we will have is green paper that is only good for wiping our ass. I can remember when I started buying music in the electronica music genre, I was getting vinyl from the UK and the currency exchange was approx. $1.20 to every UK pound - now it's $2 for every pound. This is been in only the last 6 years!!! I can also remember when the dollar was worth more than the Euro, again only 6 years ago. Granted we can download from places like Beatport but that's beside the point in this argument.

At some point the American public needs to take back their country from the corporations. This country was founded on the ideal, 'for the people, by the people.' We have turned the corner and now live by the 'make the highest profit' ideal. They have bought their way into the government and we no longer have a voice. There are clauses in our constitution that allow us to take back our country it's just that so many of us are too afraid or too uneducated (or don't care to make a difference) to do anything about it.

We are losing our country on a daily basis and I hate to be pessimistic but if there is not a change in the way we do things, 'superpower' will be a distant memory in our vocabulary.

Inflation rockets because we have fiat money. We have nothing to back up our currency. The gold standard was left long ago. Of course the SPP should help alleviate some problems come the near future. What someone makes per capita isn't all that relevant - it's the buying power. If you look at graphs, the average pay went up almost 5 fold since the early 70's - from $3 to $15. However, buying power has remained somewhat stagnant, increasing only 24 cents over the past 30-35 years!

Illegal immigrants do a hell of a lot more than what Americans would do. They have a better value system and appreciate what resources they have here. Furthermore, you would be lying to yourself if you really think they don't help our economy. How many sick days do Americans call in for? Now how many do you think the illegal immigrants miss?

You cry that they aren't contributing by paying taxes. Why should they? They can't afford healthcare. They house large families together. They make close to no money and have to A) send most of the money back to families in Mexico or B) have to pool the money together just to be able to live. Furthermore, the only services that can be rendered are emergency visits. These people are more prone to illnesses than anybody else. They work long hours in the dead heat of summer or in the bitter colds of winter. They continue working despite a lacerated finger that could abscess due to bacterial infection. If Americans really wanted their jobs back, or whatever jobs they've lost, they'd stop smoking pot all day and stop playing counterstrike.

I guess I'm kind of lost because on one hand you're blaming the immigrants, and on the other you're blaming the corporations. Then you blame the American people while at the same time being empathetic towards them? IMO, the only people to blame are ourselves for being too complacent and for acting as the noblemen while the illegals act as our serfs.

[subterFUSE]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Look..... This whole immigration issue is so simple to understand.

It goes like this:

Democrats. Democrats want illegal immigration to continue unabated. Why? Because they want things in this country to change dramatically, and they think that by drawing in as many Mexicans as possible they can swing the voting majority into their favor... giving them control of both the executive and legislative branches.

Republicans. Republicans are torn between 2 extremes. Many people want the borders secured, and for the "illegal" immigration to end. They want immigrants to be able to come to the USA, but we want it done in an organized fashion which ensures safety and fairness. But the politicians are faced with the dilema of trying to please everybody. Most americans want the borders secured. But when you take any action which secures the borders, you alienate the latino community. So in the interest of garnering both the white and latino votes.... most republican politicians, Bush included, are trying to straddle the fence.

Frankly.... both sides are shameless.

[apollo_1444]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

in my personal opinion i think we should close the borders once and for all we dont need this ex pats back i dont see the point of going north for a solution.

[subterFUSE]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Ultimately if the Mexican government could fix their economy, then border crossings would diminish. When you consider that Mexico has access to oil, and 2 beautiful coastlines, there is no reason why they should be such an impoverished country.

[Miroslav]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

We Americans all pay for this in the long run. We are told that having low paid workers keeps prices down - I don't see it. Inflation is still skyrocketing in food and other necessities, not going down or staying flat. All who are benefiting are the corporate directors with their large bonuses which only get larger as the years pass.

Take a look at economics 101 imo. Don't confuse nominal with real growth. Some controlled low level of inflation is "normal" for an economy - and significant deflation is not a good thing! Yes, inflation makes nominal prices go up, but wages generally grow too. Productivity has also increased dramatically over time. If you were to factor out inflation and look at the real prices of many goods over time, you will see that their prices have in fact dropped dramatically. This is not true of all goods, of course...but I think it's a fallacy to imply that by and large our buying power has plummeted compared to where it used to be. It hasn't...as I recall, it's about where it was.

As for whether cheap labor benefits us - sure it does. It benefits you directly in the cheap stuff you can get. It also benefits the corporate directors. All of which is not to say that it is all ethically or politically appropriate and that the process should be left unchecked.

[KinKyJ]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Ultimately if the Mexican government could fix their economy, then border crossings would diminish. When you consider that Mexico has access to oil, and 2 beautiful coastlines, there is no reason why they should be such an impoverished country.

too much siesta me thinks...

[Who?]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

I am saying that the overall politics of our current administration have had an overall effect on all areas of our livelihood as Americans. The open border policy that seems to be in use at this time is not giving us protection in any way shape or form. There are tons of Americans who aren't working that would gladley work for minimum wage just to have a steady income again. But when corporations hire illegal immigrants to do the work instead because they can pay them less than the legal wage, they are responsible for promoting the decline of the American dream (that was why I included corporations in this rant).

And if immigrants are in our country, they should pay taxes - just like everyone else here needs to. If they are sending kids to our public schools, using our medicare, they should pay for it. All of us do. Because if they don't, then all the rest of us do pay for it with the higher medicare and schooling costs (insurance anyone?).

This is a cyclical problem - everything is connected.
And the cycle begins and ends with the leadership of the country. That is my point.

[Localizer]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

I am saying that the overall politics of our current administration have had an overall effect on all areas of our livelihood as Americans. The open border policy that seems to be in use at this time is not giving us protection in any way shape or form. There are tons of Americans who aren't working that would gladley work for minimum wage just to have a steady income again. But when corporations hire illegal immigrants to do the work instead because they can pay them less than the legal wage, they are responsible for promoting the decline of the American dream (that was why I included corporations in this rant).

And if immigrants are in our country, they should pay taxes - just like everyone else here needs to. If they are sending kids to our public schools, using our medicare, they should pay for it. All of us do. Because if they don't, then all the rest of us do pay for it with the higher medicare and schooling costs (insurance anyone?).

This is a cyclical problem - everything is connected.
And the cycle begins and ends with the leadership of the country. That is my point.

Woah dude, as Charles Wheelan, notable economist points out, the difference between us and socialist countries like France is that no matter what, we have jobs opening up everywhere. One of the main progressions economists have seen is that those who are purpordetly out of work, take up jobs in more hi-tech areas. Those Americans who say their jobs are being taken away, aren't necessarily looking for jobs elsewhere. Low level jobs don't require a multitude of specific skills; in fact they require minimal skills, which many Americans do have. It's that most refuse to take up the jobs that illegals do work at. Right here in Phoenix, we have American bums panhandling on the offramps of the freeways, yet somehow we have 3.9% unemployment in Arizona?

As for your second paragraph - I'm lost in how illegals can get medicare? They don't even qualify (remember, medicare is for those who are either elderly or have young, legal kids). In fact, this situation is reversed. There are many illegals that do pay payroll taxes (because SS and Medicare taxes are deducted from payroll and NOT from income tax) and actually never see the money that they put in.

I also don't buy into your notion of them in our public schools. Most of those kids will never see the light of college, but at least they'll get the chance to attemp to get to college. They'll still end up working the same crummy jobs that their parents work and if they were born in the states, they will pay the income tax and they will pay the state tax, etc...

I think the last paragraph is the only point we agree on.

[apollo_1444]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

what do you mean a wetback is taking your jobs? thats just so stupid rofl... would you cut grass or wash dishes? (i know beenzncheez had to) dont be a retard, americans wouldn't do that shit. you know you wouldn't

they are however taking black people jobs if anything lol because blacks do almost the same thing... now wait a minute? blacks hate to work they are lazy!!

[Who?]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

So, question, do you think what happened to the 2 border patrol agents was a fair deal??

[Localizer]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

So, question, do you think what happened to the 2 border patrol agents was a fair deal??

You'd have to fill me in on what happened.