Immigration Reform!?

[DIDI]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Here's some reform!! We get your Mexicans etc, you get our Asians etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6566619.stm

That might deter some of the Mexicans crossing the border

Btw I'm not proud of what Australia does in this area.

[SyntaxTerror]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Here's some reform!! We get your Mexicans etc, you get our Asians etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6566619.stm

That might deter some of the Mexicans crossing the border

Btw I'm not proud of what Australia does in this area.

You may not be proud of it, but I bet you're looking forward to some of those Asian restaurants getting turned in to decent Mexican restaurants. Something Australia could do with some more of

[DIDI]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

I actually don't like mexican food, love asian!, particulary Thai and Vietnamese

[gia powers]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

I know that someday I will be living in Canada.

I hate to say it, but me too, I think.

Two of the guys who were arrested in the Fort Dix conspiracy came across the Mexican boarder...the government is playing it off and passing on disinformation to the media.

Also, I think what happened to the boarder patrol agents is atrocious!

Sometimes, I can't even think about this issue. Living in Southern California, I see a lot of immigrants, I can't say illegal because I don't actually ask them, but it is assumed. But there are just as many whites and blacks running around here without health insurance too. Basically, the health care system in this country needs some serious repair. I am not in favor of government run health care, but clearly, something has to be done about the skyrocketing cost of insurance.

Anyways, please excuse me, a n00b rambling on....

[88Mariner]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

i love how immigrants are being held 'above the law'. i'm all for immigration to this county, LEGAL immigration, and particularly when the immigrant brings value to the U.S, as in skills, abilities, and knowledge. but not This type of immigration....

[subterFUSE]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

i love how immigrants are being held 'above the law'. i'm all for immigration to this county, LEGAL immigration, and particularly when the immigrant brings value to the U.S, as in skills, abilities, and knowledge. but not This type of immigration....

Exactly. And most of the citizens of the USA agree with you.

But democrats want open borders, with unfettered immigration. Anyone who wants in, gets in immediately, and gets full citizenship. They want this because they want to tip the balance of voting power their direction, and will do anything to attain that shift. Rather than try to use reason to win over the current voters living the USA, they prefer to take the easy route.... and just try to increase their voter base with immigrants. So by giving amnesty to 12 million illegals, and then letting the flood gates remain open on the border, they believe they can get control of the country and push their social agenda.

The Republicans are torn between pleasing the current USA citizens by securing the border and stopping the chaos, and alienating the latino vote.


Both sides are shameless.... although I think the democrats are worse on this one. Trying to win elections by flooding the country with undocumented immigrants is beyond the pale.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

what happen to those border patrol agents was something they had comming theirselves for lying and trying to hidde the evidence in that case, not because the judge was defending an ilegal imigrant.

i live in el paso, and saw the news almost everyday on what happen in that case.

for those who dont know how that went:: two border patrol agents tried to stop an illegal imigrant who was trying to get across the river, carrying with himself, a bag full of weed, he sees the agents, and starts running to the mexican side, agents then start to shoot the guy, one of them gets him on the left cheek, agents then proceed to get rid of all evidence of the shooting and file a report that hides the facts. the imigrant heads to the hospital and somehow INS finds about his case, they negotiate with him to bring the 2 agents to justice, in return he will only get medical treatment for his wounds. case makes it to the courts, they find out the agents were hidding the evidence and were sentenced to 10 years in prision. case closed, the illegal imigrant didnt even get the medical treatment he was promised, due to pressure from organizations that didnt agree with the courts ruling.

so, dont really get how people say that what happen to those agents was something really atrocious. they shot a man that was carring no gun, in the back, and then they picked up all of the bullet shells so they wouldnt get in trouble, and finally filled up a report saying that nothing happen at all.

in regards to the imigration reform, people will always try and get into the US, not only from mexico but from other countries as well, even if they had a fence a 100 yards tall, people would still find the way of getting across. So no matter what all of us think, our goverment always takes its decisions based on the political outcome that it may have.

[subterFUSE]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

If we had a wall, and enough people to patrol it, border crossings would slow to a crawl. You are correct that nothing will stop it completely, but to say that we can't do anything to stop the flood of illegals coming over is simply false. We can do a lot to stop it, if we would just stop dragging our feet about it.

But, like I said, nobody WANTS to stop it. Democrats want more voters to come in and vote for them so they can push their social agenda. Republicans don't want to alienate the latinos, because they know that there are 12 million illegals in the country now who could be voting soon if they get amnesty.

[apollo_1444]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

I want to stop it really, our goverment should really manage their resources for this wetbacks on education, and better job oportunities, its sad i mean you guys see it as a huge problem but since mexico has a big problem called social exclusion practically normal people don't give a shit about them. its quite sad.

[Jia]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

My favorite article on immigration: http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/realamurkans.html

Here's an excerpt addressing some of the points people have brought up in this thread.

And yes, I know, these real Amurkans, however uninformed they may be about the culture they seek to "defend" from others, will insist they are only asking for adherence to the rule of law: one institution that they insist must be respected above all others. It's not that they dislike Mexicans. Goodness no! It's just that so many of them are coming illegally, and we are a law-abiding people who believe in playing by the rules.


Somewhere, the spirit of an Arapaho mother is laughing its ghostly ass off at that one, joined in her chorus of amusement by tens of millions more: Narragansett, Pequot, Lakota, you name it--all pissing themselves at the irony right about now.


There is, as the saying has long held, honor among thieves, be they bank robbers, one supposes, or those who steal whole continents. Like the descendants of those who confiscated North America, and who now, without any sense of misgiving or just plain old fashioned embarrassment, think nothing of saying how their ancestors came here legally, and that this is what makes them different, and one assumes, better, than those who come now from Mexico without adequate papers.


Of course, those who insist their ancestors came to America legally ignore a crucial point: namely, if one was of European descent, there were no real limitations on immigrating to the U.S. blocking your way. In other words, all white folks could come legally, and, in keeping with the terms of the Naturalization Act of 1790, become citizens within one year of entry, making the need for illegal subterfuge remote. To say that one's great-great whatever followed the law, when in truth there was no law to follow (or to break) is more than a bit disingenuous.


To be honest, the entire argument about the illegality of many migrants coming across the border is equally absurd. After all, forty percent of those in the country illegally didn't come that way, but rather, entered in full accordance with the nation's laws, and simply overstayed work or educational visas. Those in the anti-immigration movement who claim their only concern is for those breaking the law, pay almost no attention to this group, for reasons that can only be ones of convenience (in other words, the border is a more visible target for garnering publicity), or racism, since large numbers of visa violators are European or Canadian, and frankly, aren't seen as a threat to the so-called "American way of life," the way brown skinned, non-English speaking folks are.
That racism motivates much of the backlash should be obvious. Certainly no one can truly believe that the Minutemen would be camped out on the Canadian border if the bulk of illegal immigration were coming from the North, or that undocumented migrants from Nova Scotia would be met with the kind of hostility being meted out to those from Oaxaca.


If it were only illegality that bothered the anti crowd, they could just advocate for a streamlining of the process by which one can become a U.S. citizen in the first place. That, after all, would most certainly reduce the flow of "illegals" entering the country, by definition. But they will never advocate for such a thing, as they don't want Mexicans and others from the global south entering the U.S., whether by the letter of the law or not.


The law isn't the point, and everyone knows it. After all, just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it should be. Likewise, just because something is given cover of law, doesn't automatically indicate its legitimacy. Laws reflect the wishes of any society's ruling elite, at a given time, since they are the ones who make them. To that extent, laws are neither just nor unjust, in and of themselves. The law has, over time, enshrined slavery, theft of indigenous land, segregation, male-only voting and property owning, internment of Japanese Americans, and--since we're on the subject--immigration restrictions based on race and nationality, predicated on the biases of the dominant group. That certain among those migrating to the United States break the law in order to do so is a matter of irrelevance, morally speaking, unless one starts with the absurd proposition that laws are by definition legitimate, simply because they exist.


To complain about the illegality of many current migrants is to beg the ultimate question: namely, what makes someone illegal? Is it something essential to them as human beings, or does it have more to do with the decisions made by policy makers in the nation to which they migrate? To ask the question is to answer it, and yet to hear the nativists tell it, those who come to the U.S. illegally are by definition of bad character, precisely because of their decision to break the law: the law, in this case, of a country whose laws (until they get here) they are not bound to follow in the first place.

[apollo_1444]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Americans have all the power (military, wealth, and whatnot) in the world to end immigration in a few weeks or even days.
They just don't do it because their own population wouldn't take those kinds of jobs. I'd like to see some whitetrash fag in a mcdonalds. Immigration brings benefits to any economy.

[Localizer]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

Americans have all the power (military, wealth, and whatnot) in the world to end immigration in a few weeks or even days.
They just don't do it because their own population wouldn't take those kinds of jobs. I'd like to see some whitetrash fag in a mcdonalds. Immigration brings benefits to any economy.

There are plenty of 'white trash fags' working at mcdonalds. You really need to start bringing some substance to these threads as your acrimony is useless in debates.

[apollo_1444]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

There are plenty of 'white trash fags' working at mcdonalds. You really need to start bringing some substance to these threads as your acrimony is useless in debates.

you got my point anyway mate thats all i'm gonna say about it.

[superdave]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

The bill that both the Congress & President wants to pass is not going to work. Here's some of the problems - many illegals are low skilled labor and can't afford the $5,000 penalty and additional fees. The head of the household has to go back to his country of origin and go through a process to come back to America. I agree with the point that this new immigration reform only benefits illegals that have good paying jobs or are wealthy.

Finally, I don't believe we can close the borders. We don't or actually won't enforce the borders hard enough to stop people from coming over through Mexico. We've been trying to close the borders for at least 30 years and have been unsuccessful. I don't see how this new bill will make any difference.

America is turning into Northern Mexico. North American Union here we come.

[subterFUSE]

Re: Immigration Reform!?

False.

We have not been trying to secure the borders for 30 years. We have been looking the other way. Immigration has been a hot-potato issue for that time. Nobody wants to take hold of it long enough to do anything.

If the USA wanted to stop illegal crossings, we could do it in about 1 week. Send 50,000 National Guard troops to the border, and that's it. You'd have an almost complete stop in border crossings.

But this would upset the 12 million illegals already here in the USA. People who will eventually get to vote, if they aren't already. Since every major election in this country comes down to a few votes, neither side can afford to alienate anyone if it can be avoided.

So, the problem just gets passed on to the next congress. And to the next. And so on.