If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
yes I realize that Canada is the number one but look at the next 4 countries.. that is what I was talking about.. But there is NO reason why gas should be as expensive as it is.. Sounds like the oil companies will make double as much on the 16th..
yes I realize that Canada is the number one but look at the next 4 countries.. that is what I was talking about.. But there is NO reason why gas should be as expensive as it is.. Sounds like the oil companies will make double as much on the 16th..
no offense here man...but you don't seem to well educated on the subject matter..."the oil companies" don't have any control over the price of oil in the same way farmers don't have control over the price of agricultural products. its supply & demand. most of the worlds oil is actually owned by NOCs (national oil companies), who are not always out for immediate profits. Alot of them have constitutional mandates to preserve and maintain the value of their reserves for as long as possible, which is counter to your theory.
Either way, there are way too many oil companies for there to be any sort of collusion to fix prices. Even the once mighty OPEC doesn't have nearly the power it used to.
no offense here man...but you don't seem to well educated on the subject matter..."the oil companies" don't have any control over the price of oil in the same way farmers don't have control over the price of agricultural products. its supply & demand. most of the worlds oil is actually owned by NOCs (national oil companies), who are not always out for immediate profits. Alot of them have constitutional mandates to preserve and maintain the value of their reserves for as long as possible, which is counter to your theory.
Either way, there are way too many oil companies for there to be any sort of collusion to fix prices. Even the once mighty OPEC doesn't have nearly the power it used to.
hold on here i'm un-eduacted but you say the oil compnaies don't have any control of the price?? and they aren't out for immediate profits?? Business 101 -- its all about the profit.. I might not know everything about oil companies but i know business. How can they be making any money if the oil sits in their reserves? You don't think the government pays them to sit on those reserves? Come on. I bet you anything that Exxon alone has more say then OPEC.. Furthermore the oil that is coming out of the ground in alberta is owned by american businessmen and the queen..
Man, the morons sending this "don't pump gas on the 15th" email through the wires need to be fucking shot. I've received this email at least 5 times this week. Bunch of freaking dumbasses. Not pumping gas on one day won't change the price of oil 1 cent. Seriously, who makes up stupid shit like this and thinks it will work? Way to keep it alive Sakio!
hold on here i'm un-eduacted but you say the oil compnaies don't have any control of the price?? and they aren't out for immediate profits?? Business 101 -- its all about the profit.. I might not know everything about oil companies but i know business. How can they be making any money if the oil sits in their reserves? You don't think the government pays them to sit on those reserves? Come on. I bet you anything that Exxon alone has more say then OPEC.. Furthermore the oil that is coming out of the ground in alberta is owned by american businessmen and the queen..
lol, you officially lost me man...i don't even know where to start. If you don't believe me that oil companies have little to no control over oil prices, go ask any economics professor. but to put it in concrete terms...in 1999 oil prices were $10 a barrel and oil companies were losing their shirts. they were laying off people like crazy until oil climbed out of its hole. And recently, oil prices have fluctuated from $70 a barrel, down to just over $50 within a years time. its now back up in the mid $60 range. If they had any control over the prices, why would they have let prices drop $20 a barrel in 12 months?
you've got some serious conspiracy theories there man...the gov't is paying countries to keep oil in the ground? Hardly...many of the biggest oil producing countries are clients of my company, and i can assure you they're not being paid by anyone to keep oil in the ground. they have a soveriegn duty to maintain their oil reserves as long as possible to the benefit of their country.
exxon has more power than OPEC??? wow thats just completely incorrect. OPEC only has about 1/20th the amount of proven reserves than the OPEC members.
Exxon - 11,651 Million Barrels Oil Equivelant in proven reserves as of 2006
Saudi Aramco - 262,700 Million Barrels Oil Equivelant in proven reserves as of 2006
note: Saudi Aramco is just ONE of the countries in OPEC.
And as far as the oil "coming out of the ground in alberta" (you really mean being mined...cause its tar sands and you can't pump it without steam injection)...its most definitely not just 'owned by american business man and the queen'. thats just laughable man, really. Suncor, Encana, Shell, Husky, and 100 other companies are involved in the oil sands in Alberta. Their shareholders own the rights to the oil that those companies have acquired, and the alberta government owns the land rights to all the unclaimed areas of alberta, for which they make billions of dollars a year in land sales.
seriously, you need to stop while you're behind...you don't know what you are talking about.
hey, guess what...oil companies aren't villans, and they can't control the prices of oil through collusion.
Aww, that's cute.
Seriously, I can't point you to any evidence of collusion in the oil industry as I sit here right now ('cuz if I could I'd be doing something about it), but if you think that the corporate world is completely above colluding with would-be competitors to fix or raise prices, I would submit that you're being pretty naive. Companies can, and do, enter into cartel agreements that can impact price, and I can think of no reason why the oil industry would be above that sort of behavior or the oil market would be insulated by the effects of those sorts of agreements. It happens.
and BTW, this whole "don't buy gas for day to fuck the oil companies" is asinine, IMO. If we want to affect the price of oil, we need to stop using so much of it, period.
so can sobody tell me why the oil companies are making more profits than anyone has in the entire history of the world???
Last year, the Irving, Texas-based company posted the largest annual profit by a U.S. company — $39.5 billion. That result topped the previous record, also by Exxon Mobil, of $36.13 billion set in 2005.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18327049/
but no control of prices? how bought reducing profit to 20 billion a year?
Seriously, I can't point you to any evidence of collusion in the oil industry as I sit here right now ('cuz if I could I'd be doing something about it), but if you think that the corporate world is completely above colluding with would-be competitors to fix or raise prices, I would submit that you're being pretty naive. Companies can, and do, enter into cartel agreements that can impact price, and I can think of no reason why the oil industry would be above that sort of behavior or the oil market would be insulated by the effects of those sorts of agreements. It happens.
Collusion surely does happen...the question is whether it's really the important explanatory factor behind the run-up in gas prices in the recent past.
You all remember not so distant times when the price of a gallon of gas was less than one half of what it is today. If oil companies are colluding now and raising the prices so high, then why did we have such low prices back then? I would presume that oil companies are no more or less greedy today than they were back then. If collusion is going on now to such an extent (must be on a pretty widespread and at a high level, I would think), then what has changed in the external environment vs. a few years ago to enable such a situation?
Originally posted by chuckc
so can sobody tell me why the oil companies are making more profits than anyone has in the entire history of the world???
the ability of firms to be able to effectively run an ologopoly/cartel in a given market is inversely related to the number of firms in that market. There are literally hundreds of oil companies. the idea that they'll all get together and fix prices is completely false and dreamed up by the people who think 'big oil' is out to get the world. its just not possible for the scale of price fixing to occur that would actually impact market price. the number of factors that contribute to the volatility of oil prices is so great that they have essentially become a random walk - totally unpredictable even by the best oil forecasters in the world.
and chuck...do you think that you would have had the same arguments around profits 8 years ago when oil prices were very low? also, you need to look at inflation adjusted profits...how much was $30 Billion in the 60s or 70s? There are more than likely several instances where corporate profits have equaled or exceeded the current profits of oil companies on an inflation-adjusted basis.
having said all that...yes, the oil companies are very profitable right now. its the nature of commodities...boom and bust.
Oil is a business just like any other business. They have even mentioned that by the raise in oil prices they have made more money lately than they had in the past when we had cheaper prices in gas.
Collusion surely does happen...the question is whether or not it is the important explanatory factor behind the run-up in gas prices in the recent past.
I would argue that oil companies today are any more or less greedy than they were 10 years ago. Business executives' motivations have not suddenly fundamentally changed; if they are in a position to extract economic rents, why haven't they done so all along? You all can remember times not that long ago when gas prices were less than one half of what they were today. Was collusion going on then, too?
And if collusion (pretty widespread and/or high level, I'd guess) is the name of the game today, then what has changed in the external environment to enable it now?
My conjecture would be that the bigger picture behind the recent and current situation is mainly related to market dynamics.
Let me be clear on what I am saying here -- I'm not saying that oil companies are, in fact, fixing prices, or that that has anything to do with the oil prices we're paying right now. What I am responding to is the suggestion that it would be impossible for them to do so which is, in my estimation, not in accord with reality.
Originally posted by day_for_night
the ability of firms to be able to effectively run an ologopoly/cartel in a given market is inversely related to the number of firms in that market. There are literally hundreds of oil companies. the idea that they'll all get together and fix prices is completely false and dreamed up by the people who think 'big oil' is out to get the world. its just not possible for the scale of price fixing to occur that would actually impact market price. the number of factors that contribute to the volatility of oil prices is so great that they have essentially become a random walk - totally unpredictable even by the best oil forecasters in the world.
Well, this is an interesting point, and I had honestly thought that your previous response was based upon bright and cheery feelings about the absence of price-fixing in the marketplace, so I'll take a step back somewhat. With that said, I still think this is an oversimplification -- it is not necessary that every single company in a market (or even most of them) enter into a price fixing agreement for it to have an adverse effect on the market, and particularly when you have institutional cartel-like bodies in place that by their nature facilitate the cooperation of would-be competitors, I don't think it is that wild of a stretch to see the potential for such activities.
In short:
-Do I think the prices we're seeing are the effect of illegal price fixing activity right now? No, I really haven't seen any evidence of that.
-On the other hand, does the nature of the oil market make collusive agreements impossible? Absolutely not, IMO.
Remember that when gas companies raised the price of gas over $2.00 per gal. They argued that gas would be in short supply. There is more gas now than 35 years ago when the price was 29? per gal.
Gas companies want us to believe that gas is cheap at 1.99? per gal.
We must act agressively
and
Show them that the consumers
Can have some control over prices and not
only gas companies.
The best way to be successful is to hit where it hurts: their bank accounts!
WE CAN DO IT !
HOW?
As we all need our vehicles, we cannot simply stop buying gas.
However, we can have a significant impact on the price of gas
IF WE ACT TOGETHER
to initiate a
PRICE WAR!!!
This idea is suggested:
For the remainder of the year,
WE DO NOT BUY ANY GAS FROM
The two largest companies
(who are now only ONE)
Exxon and SHELL
Think about it!
If the major gas companies do not sell gas, they will unavoidably lower their prices and this will immediately result in a PRICE WAR.
In order to generate the desired impact, we must reach millions of
Exxon and SHELL consumers.
If each and everyone of you forward this message to 10 people within a day or so, we will be
300 MILLIONS
of people
To go to war against these gas companies in approximately 8 days!
Do you really believe that they
will have other options?
It is absolutely
NECESSARY
To continue purchasing our gas
ELSEWHERE
Than at
Exxon and SHELL
and this, until we reach our objective.
And, MOST OF ALL, LET US
FORWARD THIS MESSAGE!
CAN WE COUNT ON YOU??
We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted.
Tweet
everybody not buying on the 15th = people fill early on the 14th = an increase in demand = gas prices go up on the 15th
Comment