UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

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  • WaveSculptor
    Getting warmed up
    • Oct 2006
    • 84

    UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

    Hardly recent news, but I was wondering how this information might affect people's views on Iraq's weapon programs and UN inspection compliance (or lack thereof, which as you may recall were our primary justifications for invading).

    Scott Ritter was a chief weapons inspector for the UN from 1991-98. He became an outspoken critic of the Bush administration and the Iraq war after resigning from UNSCOM in 98. That year Clinton authorized a 4 day bombing of Iraq weapons facilities known as Operation Desert Fox. Ritter alleged that recon for this bombing was performed covertly by UN inspectors, who insisted on gathering information unrelated to WMD programs

    [citing wiki - operation desert fox]

    "UNSCOM weapons inspectors were not expelled from the country by Iraq as has often been reported (and as George W. Bush alleged in his 2002 "axis of evil" speech). Rather, according to Butler himself in his book Saddam Defiant (2000), it was U.S. Ambassador Peter Burleigh, acting on instructions from Washington, who suggested Butler pull his team from Iraq in order to protect them from the forthcoming U.S. and British airstrikes."
    ...
    Ritter accused Butler and other UNSCOM staff of working with the US, in opposition to their UN mandate. He claimed that UNSCOM deliberately sabotaged relations with Iraq by insisting on gathering intelligence unrelated to prohibited weapons, some of which was to be used in the forthcoming bombing."

    Ritter also alleges Operation Rockingham, the UK wing of the Iraq regime change vehicle, was actively maintaining "the public mindset that Iraq was not in compliance..."

    [citing wiki - operation rockingham]

    "Operation Rockingham cherry-picked intelligence. It received hard data, but had a preordained outcome in mind. It only put forward a small percentage of the facts when most were ambiguous or noted no WMD... It became part of an effort to maintain a public mindset that Iraq was not in compliance with the inspections. They had to sustain the allegation that Iraq had WMD [when] Unscom was showing the opposite.

    For example, Ritter claimed, Rockingham would leak false information to weapons inspectors but then use the inspections as evidence for WMD: "Rockingham was the source of some very controversial information which led to inspections of a suspected ballistic missile site. We ... found nothing. However, our act of searching allowed the US and UK to say that the missiles existed."

    A former colleague of Ritter's in UNSCOM was British weapons expert Dr. David Kelly, who died suspiciously of apparent suicide, just days after being named as the inside source for BBC reports claiming the press office of prime minister Tony Blair had knowingly embellished documents with misleading exaggerations of Iraq's military capabilities...anyone else feeling uneasy yet?

    [citing wiki - the hutton inquiry]

    "A British ambassador called David Broucher reported a conversation with Dr Kelly at a Geneva meeting in February 2003, which he described as from "deep within the memory hole". Broucher related that Kelly said he had assured his Iraqi sources that there would be no war if they co-operated, and that a war would put him in an 'ambiguous' moral position. Broucher had asked Kelly what would happen if Iraq were invaded, and Kelly had replied, 'I will probably be found dead in the woods.' Broucher then quoted from an email he had sent just after Kelly's death: 'I did not think much of this at the time, taking it to be a hint that the Iraqis might try to take revenge against him, something that did not seem at all fanciful then. I now see that he may have been thinking on rather different lines."
    The Cosmos works by harmony of tensions...
  • cosmo
    Gold Gabber
    • Jun 2004
    • 583

    #2
    Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

    It was definently the fault of the Bush administration to rely heavily upon the wmd's claim, instead of using the absolute valid arguments that Saddam supported al-Zarqawi and Ansar-al-Islam, as well as al-Zawahiri and al-Qaeda.

    Saddam funded Ansar-al-Islam within the Kurdish region and repeatedly gave al-Zawahiri cash, at one meeting gave him 300K, and continued funding al-Qaeda until we toppled his regime.

    Not only did he fund al-Qaeda and Ansar-al-Islam, he funded Palestinian bombers' familes, promoting the bombings of innocent Jews within Israel. Also noteable is the fact that he funded extremist groups in the Phillipines.

    We could have kept using this information in order to remove him, but instead, we kept using the weak WMD argument. A mistake.

    Comment

    • toasty
      Sir Toastiness
      • Jun 2004
      • 6585

      #3
      Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

      Originally posted by cosmo
      It was definently the fault of the Bush administration to rely heavily upon the wmd's claim, instead of using the absolute valid arguments that Saddam supported al-Zarqawi and Ansar-al-Islam, as well as al-Zawahiri and al-Qaeda.

      Saddam funded Ansar-al-Islam within the Kurdish region and repeatedly gave al-Zawahiri cash, at one meeting gave him 300K, and continued funding al-Qaeda until we toppled his regime.

      Not only did he fund al-Qaeda and Ansar-al-Islam, he funded Palestinian bombers' familes, promoting the bombings of innocent Jews within Israel. Also noteable is the fact that he funded extremist groups in the Phillipines.

      We could have kept using this information in order to remove him, but instead, we kept using the weak WMD argument. A mistake.
      You know, it's been a while since we've had someone in the politics forum parroting neocon talking points as if they were fact. Good to have you back!

      Comment

      • WaveSculptor
        Getting warmed up
        • Oct 2006
        • 84

        #4
        Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

        American taxes have also funded the overthrows and/or outright killings of democratically elected leaders all throughout South & Central America, and we've installed and supported some of the most tyrannical leaders in recent history. Still, I can't imagine anyone outside the US citing that as a justification for a coup against our government, particularly because although it may be common knowledge in the intelligence community, it will surely be unprovable in a courtroom (or if it is, he was acting on behalf of 'national interests'). WMDs was the panic button they knew they could convince the public with, since the average citizen has little-to-no background on the conflict in that region.
        The Cosmos works by harmony of tensions...

        Comment

        • Who?
          Getting warmed up
          • May 2007
          • 87

          #5
          Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

          Originally posted by toasty
          You know, it's been a while since we've had someone in the politics forum parroting neocon talking points as if they were fact. Good to have you back!

          Comment

          • cosmo
            Gold Gabber
            • Jun 2004
            • 583

            #6
            Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

            Originally posted by toasty
            You know, it's been a while since we've had someone in the politics forum parroting neocon talking points as if they were fact. Good to have you back!

            Is that all you have in your arsenal?

            Comment

            • cosmo
              Gold Gabber
              • Jun 2004
              • 583

              #7
              Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

              Originally posted by WaveSculptor
              American taxes have also funded the overthrows and/or outright killings of democratically elected leaders all throughout South & Central America, and we've installed and supported some of the most tyrannical leaders in recent history. Still, I can't imagine anyone outside the US citing that as a justification for a coup against our government, particularly because although it may be common knowledge in the intelligence community, it will surely be unprovable in a courtroom (or if it is, he was acting on behalf of 'national interests'). WMDs was the panic button they knew they could convince the public with, since the average citizen has little-to-no background on the conflict in that region.

              Have we been reading Noam Chomsky? The same Noam Chomsky that met with Hezbollah several months ago to lash out against Israel and the United States? The same Noam Chomsky that has nothing to say about their Islamic fascistic ideology? It's shocking that someone who preaches against such power, is once again siding with throwbacks from the first millennia to lash out at the West.

              The tyrranical 'dictators' that we did support in the past was to thwart the global threat of communism, and for good reason. We can also say that we supported Stalin against Hitler.

              But that's beside the point. I was simply calling the Bush administration inept with regard to their use of arguments for the war.

              Comment

              • toasty
                Sir Toastiness
                • Jun 2004
                • 6585

                #8
                Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

                Originally posted by cosmo
                Is that all you have in your arsenal?
                No. For more substantive comments, see the dozens upon dozens of threads where this sort of thing has been discussed over the past 3 years. I've grown weary of responding to the same absurd bluster over and over again, and it stops now.

                Moreover, I really think that rational people do themselves a disservice by even lending enough credence to these sorts of claims to get fired up and go to the effort of disproving them -- again. From this point forth, references to such ridiculous assertions will be responded to, if at all, in kind.

                Let's start:

                Comment

                • WaveSculptor
                  Getting warmed up
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 84

                  #9
                  Re: UN Deliberately Sabotaged US-Iraq Relations?

                  I haven't been reading Chomsky. The history of our political manipulation in Latin America is well known and documented abundantly throughout modern literature (Graham Greene, for example). I know of him however, and have to say that you don't get to be a respected MIT professor by being a fool. His work in linguistic theory before his antiwar activism is regarded as being highly sophisticated, if not revolutionary. I can't see any correlation between touring the international lecture circuit and allegedly espousing islamofascism, regardless of who he 'meets with' out there or which power structures he condemns.

                  So let me see if I've got this: we overthrew neutral governments and subjected nations to the rule of madmen, effectively demolishing centuries of locally evolved cultural diversity through ensuing genocide and/or nationalization, out of fear they might one day become communist? Wow, the Reds must have reeally been atrocious. My point is, we weren't justified in doing it then, and we aren't now. Forgive my ramblings, I just haven't been able to shake that pesky notion we were indoctrinated with, that America actually stands for freedom and cultural diversity, and would never trample over the rights of others to ensure record oil profits.
                  The Cosmos works by harmony of tensions...

                  Comment

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