God

[BureOne]

Re: God

well that's the thing... Im not saying it's a coincidence...hence why its less understandable. So if it's unexplanable.. what is it?

People associate miracles with the belief in God.. but if they dont beleive in such a "higher being" what would you say of such an example of someone being cured of cancer without medicine being a factor?

I mean there have been stories of this right?... I dont have articles or uh "proof", but I think we've all heard of such stories.

Im not sure Im making any sense here..lol

[rubyraks]

Re: God

I understand you, but what you're trying to get to is that since science can't explain why someone with cancer was suddenly cured that that must be god's hand. That's where you're allowing your faith and belief to "jump to a conclusion". You've begun with a belief in a god and a god that performs miracles and in the absence of any other explanation that becomes your default one.

I can't give a better explanation of why the person was cured of cancer, science is no help here, but in the absence of scientific knowledge is there nothing else other than god?

[threehills]

Re: God

What do non-beleivers think about Miracles? Call it something else, what do you think of someone having cancer and then the cancer dissapearing?

Would you call cancer in itself a miracle? If not, then what ever process caused the cancer another process exits to stop it. For example, many cancers are caused by DNA mutations. Further mutations can occur to silence the genes leading to cancer. I would never consider the remissions of cancer a miracle.

[BureOne]

Re: God

I understand you, but what you're trying to get to is that since science can't explain why someone with cancer was suddenly cured that that must be god's hand. That's where you're allowing your faith and belief to "jump to a conclusion". You've begun with a belief in a god and a god that performs miracles and in the absence of any other explanation that becomes your default one.

I can't give a better explanation of why the person was cured of cancer, science is no help here, but in the absence of scientific knowledge is there nothing else other than god?

I would call it a miracle from God or a "higher being" if people dont like the word/name God involved, what would others call it is what Im curious..

[rainman]

Re: God

I've never seen someone use math, physics, and chemistry to explain religion until now. but even after pulling all three into the argument, it still ended with "you can't see it, you just need to believe in it"

don't forget the Dr. Dre quote at the end. I'm with pickles on this one, how can you use math, physics and rap lyrics to explain the difference of believing vs. not?

[BureOne]

Re: God

Would you call cancer in itself a miracle? If not, then what ever process caused the cancer another process exits to stop it. For example, many cancers are caused by DNA mutations. Further mutations can occur to silence the genes leading to cancer. I would never consider the remissions of cancer a miracle.

wha? I dont think cancer is a miracle.

So if there are dna mutations that cause the ill virus/disease cancer.. and science and medicine can see it; detect it.. why can't they see the other mutations that stops it like you say? I would think they can see the dna mutation that stops it as they can see the one that starts it...

imo, people create excuses not to consider or call it a "miracle".. in any case; I think we all would agree whatever stopped the cancer, good for the one who had it

[rubyraks]

Re: God

^so am I to understand that since you've convinced yourself to call cancer remission a "miracle", that all other terms of explanation (ie. coincidence, nature, etc.) are unacceptable?

[floridaorange]

Re: God

i agree w. beach bum, now if I could just find what page in this book his post is on again...

[Miroslav]

Re: God

^^^ lol <---- my best contribution to this thread to date

[trick12]

Re: God

don't forget the Dr. Dre quote at the end. I'm with pickles on this one, how can you use math, physics and rap lyrics to explain the difference of believing vs. not?

Had to add the dre quote in there, was feeling it at the moment...and by the way I will give you one example that you can think about....the spiders...who gave that small insect the ability to create huge amounts of thread to build their houses? not me not you, not itself...someone created it just like your heart pumping blood in perfect rythym beat by beat...delay could cause death,,the clouds being filled up with water and travelling hundredes of miles just to go pour them some where else to keep the balance and bring life to others??still no God??...study the mechanism of clouds and how complex the process is...the ozone layer,,,gravity,,,,how is it glowing light on earth while we live in a dark universe?? all a coincedence...or u can say nature but who is nature??

[floridaorange]

Re: God

^I'd like to combine these threads for the freshies - lol http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/...ad.php?t=19322

[djsethnichols]

Re: God

am i really expected to believe that i was created two-thousand years ago while science proves that humans have been around for far longer?

I'm not sure where you got this information from. But 2000 years ago is the supposed time of death of Jesus, not when humans were created.

Myself personally. I do believe in a 'God' that created all things, and still lives within all things 'living'. This comes from personal experiences and my own conclusions, not from a book or a building.
Though I don't see God as a person or being, but more of an entity like energy and water in our physical world. And beyond that a spiritual entity. I think God speaks to us through reactions to our actions (kind of like the karma idea). thus we have 'free will' and we learn the right of that will through those actions and reactions. We can see these reactions to ourselves or within ourselves or upon others.
I don't believe we need a book to tell us how to live, it's all written inside us, it's just a matter of living, questioning, and learning for yourself the path of least resistance and greatest happiness for yourself and those that surround you.
I don't believe Jesus is the only way, but one of many ways. Jesus was a great man that lived a life worth living after, but he's no more than a man like you and me. There are many great examples of 'Godly' people in our history and present.

[rainman]

Re: God

Had to add the dre quote in there, was feeling it at the moment...and by the way I will give you one example that you can think about....the spiders...who gave that small insect the ability to create huge amounts of thread to build their houses? not me not you, not itself...someone created it just like your heart pumping blood in perfect rythym beat by beat...delay could cause death,,the clouds being filled up with water and travelling hundredes of miles just to go pour them some where else to keep the balance and bring life to others??still no God??...study the mechanism of clouds and how complex the process is...the ozone layer,,,gravity,,,,how is it glowing light on earth while we live in a dark universe?? all a coincedence...or u can say nature but who is nature??

where is cowardly?

[BureOne]

Re: God

^so am I to understand that since you've convinced yourself to call cancer remission a "miracle", that all other terms of explanation (ie. coincidence, nature, etc.) are unacceptable?

unacceptable as a miracle (the forest fire example)... I dont think it would constitute of one imo; like you said, maybe a mear coincidence of good weather., but maybe to the person who's home was about to be charred... maybe its a miracle to them... this is indeed a tough one.

I think something soo extreme as "unexplainable", like being cured from cancer, or aids (I dont think that's happened) but something so unimaginable that it bends the laws of science, physics what have you; can maybe be constituted as a "miracle",

something someone can explain and give a pretty good assumption why it happened the way it did; maybe some "proof" then that might not be considererd a miracle..

[picklemonkey]

Re: God

Had to add the dre quote in there, was feeling it at the moment...and by the way I will give you one example that you can think about....the spiders...who gave that small insect the ability to create huge amounts of thread to build their houses? not me not you, not itself...someone created it just like your heart pumping blood in perfect rythym beat by beat...delay could cause death,,the clouds being filled up with water and travelling hundredes of miles just to go pour them some where else to keep the balance and bring life to others??still no God??...study the mechanism of clouds and how complex the process is...the ozone layer,,,gravity,,,,how is it glowing light on earth while we live in a dark universe?? all a coincedence...or u can say nature but who is nature??

clouds are nothing but moisture. rain happens when the clouds become too saturated with moisture. clouds move because of wind. wind happens because air moves from high pressure locations to low pressure locations. gravity is caused from earth spinning on its axis. earth has daylight because it faces the sun. when we don't face the sun, it's dark just like the rest of the universe. none of it is a coincidence but instead is very explainable...

let's assume "God" created spiders and humans. how does that prove that Heaven exists? that there's life after death? that he's constantly causing fires, putting out fires, moving clouds, watering life, destroying lands with tornadoes, growing potatoes, rotting tomatoes, hiding rainbows, making rivers flow, providing light, curing cancers, taking life, creating life, and constantly watching/judging/punishing/curing/diagnosing each of 6 billion people all at the same time, 24 hours per day? I can't even keep track of 6 people at a time when playing The Sims but this guy is the explanation for everything?



"Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac rear end on a Plymouth work? It just does."