If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

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  • dirtykarma
    Fresh Peossy
    • Jul 2004
    • 14

    If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

    What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

    Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

    And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

    What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

    What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

    There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

    What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

    What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

    What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

    What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

    What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

    What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

    What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

    What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

    What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?
  • Civic_Zen
    Platinum Poster
    • Jun 2004
    • 1116

    #2
    Ummmm, ya I already read this. http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3632

    What the hell is this guys point?? I have rarely wasted so much time reading such jibberish. Juan Cole is a joke of the finest caliber.
    "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)
    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Comment

    • toasty
      Sir Toastiness
      • Jun 2004
      • 6585

      #3
      Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

      Allawi's claims that the country is safe are a joke. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, 15 of Iraq's provinces are safe -- which implies that 3 are not. If you were to extrapolate that to the US, that would be the equivalent of 8 states being dangerous. It also bears mention that the fighting that is going on right now is occurring in Iraq's bigger cities -- so it is not like you couldn't safely spend time in Wyoming, West Virginia or Alaska, it would be more like not being able to go to NYC, DC and Southern California.

      Could you imagine what would happen if you were to try to say, "Listen, the United States is completely safe, except that you should stay away from Manhattan, the DC-Baltimore area, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Dallas." You couldn't pull that off with a straight face.

      No shit much of Iraq is safe. Much of the country is frickin' deserted. No people = no fighting.

      The day Allawi can stroll across Fallujah unprotected and unworried, I'll believe whatever her has to say. Until then, his claims of safety ring hollow, as everything else seems to point to a different conclusion right now. I'm calling bullshit.

      Comment

      • Jenks
        I'm kind of a big deal.
        • Jun 2004
        • 10250

        #4
        hell, i can say that now...


        The United States is completely safe, but, stay away from North St. Louis city, Detroit, inner city DC, etc...

        Terrorists don't have shit on North STL.

        Comment

        • Yao
          DUDERZ get a life!!!
          • Jun 2004
          • 8167

          #5
          And just multiplying numbers by 11 is total bullshit IMO. No two situations are the same, population density differs and so much more factors. We have a word for reasoning like that in Holland called 'Drogredenering', of which I unfortunately do not know the translation.

          It is about making comparisons which don't go, or just reasoning your way to what you want to hear, twisting and bending the truth.
          Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

          There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

          Comment

          • Civic_Zen
            Platinum Poster
            • Jun 2004
            • 1116

            #6


            Hi Guys, I'm Juan Cole and I'm a joke of a History Professor. Please email me @ jricole@yahoo.com or jrcole@umich.edu (or both is even better) and tell me how much of a joke you think I am. Have a nice day.
            "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus (55-117 A.D.)
            "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."
            - Thomas Jefferson

            Comment

            • mikenytola
              Getting Somewhere
              • Jun 2004
              • 116

              #7
              Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

              It would be very dry I think.

              Comment

              • Jenks
                I'm kind of a big deal.
                • Jun 2004
                • 10250

                #8
                ^and hot. and sandy.

                Comment

                • digitalghostx
                  Fresh Peossy
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 40

                  #9
                  Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

                  We have small Iraq's here, seriously in the city I live near, Philadelphia, 1 person a day dies violently on average. What the hell is that? no one cares about it. No one count's those bodies, and they are no calls to take back the city from 'insurgents' here.

                  Comment

                  • LobsterClan
                    Getting Somewhere
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 133

                    #10
                    Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

                    "This is long, so I've put it into the extended entry. It's a daily briefing of hostile acts in Iraq for yesterday, September 23, 2004. These "security bulletins", put together by USAID, are distributed to international aid workers and NGOs.
                    Read it, then compare to Bush, Allawi, and administration statements that things are somehow improving.

                    War ::

                    SECURITY UPDATE - ISSUED 24 SEP 04

                    BAGHDAD

                    EVENTS OF INTEREST - 23 SEP 04:

                    Baghdad

                    MNF activity in Sadr City recently has resulted in an increase in reported insurgent incidents.

                    The BIAP Road and 14 Ramadan Street (Routes IRISH and

                    FORCE respectively) are under sustained attack with the terrorists trying to break into the BIAP. The vehicle borne IED threat remains high in these areas.

                    There are unofficial reports of criminal gangs in Baghdad conducting activity with a view to kidnapping ex-pats for the bounty offered by terrorist organizations. Currently the threat of kidnapping is extremely high.

                    Historically, MNF activity in Sadr City has generated reprisal or indirect fire attacks into the International Zone and personnel are warned of an increased likelihood of such attacks in the near future.

                    The threat of abduction from within the International Zone remains and personnel should check their personal, individual security arrangements accordingly.

                    0115 hrs Small arms fire attack on an Iraqi Police patrol in Ur District.

                    0110 hrs IED attack on a convoy in the area of the 14 Ramadan street/Route 10 intersection (Routes FORCE and CARDINALS).

                    0200 hrs Six IEDs found and cleared in Sadr City.

                    0808 hrs.Indirect fire attack on MNF facilities in the northern area of the airport.

                    0937 hrs. IED attack on a patrol on Route PREDATORS.

                    1132 hrs. Indirect fire attack (mortar) on an MNF base in the Shawra Wa Um Jidir District.

                    1220 hrs. RPG attack on a patrol on Haifa Street.
                    OTHER AREAS:
                    EVENTS OF INTEREST - 23 SEP 04:

                    NORTH

                    The high level of activity in the North continues with no immediate prospect of a reduction. A general trend is emerging of attacks spreading into historically less active areas; planners should re-evaluate their movement policy in the light of the changing threat. More attacks on the oil infrastructure and personnel connected with it are expected, as is an increase in sectarian motivated terrorism.

                    The TAMPA Corridor, which includes the parallel Route DOVER, remains under sustained attack and movement along it should be limited to essential tasks only.

                    An official report comments on the increase in IED attacks in Diyala Province to the northeast of Baghdad and routes in this area should now also be regarded as at an increased level of threat.

                    Baqubah

                    0048 hrs. Small arms fire attack on the Iraqi Police in the Baqubah area.

                    0120 hrs. Indirect and small arms fire attack on the ING in the Baqubah area.
                    Ad-Dujayl
                    0800 hrs. IED found and cleared on Route HEATHER in the Ad-Dujayl area. Duluiyah

                    1330 hrs. RPG attack on a patrol in Duluiyah.

                    1405 hrs. Indirect fire attack on a patrol in northern Duluiyah.
                    Hawija

                    1230 hrs. Unofficial report: An IED comprising a rocket, det cord and a timer was found and cleared in the Hawija area.
                    Al-Khalis

                    0840 hrs. RPG attack on a patrol in the Al-Khalis area. Mosul

                    23 Sep 04. Unofficial report: The Deputy Director of Oil Products for the Northern Oil company, Sana Toma Suleiman, was shot dead on his way to work in Mosul.

                    0126 hrs. Small arms fire attack in the Mosul area.

                    1250 hrs. Indirect fire attack (mortar) on a patrol in Mosul.

                    1345 hrs. Small arms fire attack on a patrol in Mosul.
                    Samarra
                    0138 hrs. Small arms fire attack on a convoy in the Samarra area.

                    1408 hrs. Indirect fire attack in the Samarra area. Tikrit

                    0800 hrs. Unofficial report: An MNF convoy discovered an IED comprising a 155mm artillery shell at the intersection of Route TAMPA and the Tikrit bypass. A secondary device found in the area proved to be a hoax.

                    1000 hrs. Unofficial report: An anti-personnel mine was found and cleared on Route TAMPA North of Tikrti.
                    WEST
                    The MNF offensive continues in Fallujah and Ramadi. Travel along the Fallujah/Ramadi routes should be avoided.

                    Fallujah

                    Untimed. Indirect fire attack in the Fallujah area.

                    0818 hrs. IED attack on an oil pipeline 30km southwest of Fallujah. Habbaniyah

                    0410 hrs. RPG and small arms fire on a MNF helo in the Al-Taqaddam area, near Habbaniyah. Husaybah

                    1258 hrs. IED attack on a patrol in southern Husaybah. Khaladiyah

                    0915 hrs. IED attack on a patrol using Route MICHIGAN in the Khaladiyah area. The device was placed on the northern side of the road.

                    1315 hrs. IED attack on a patrol in the area of Route MICHIGAN in the Khalidiyah area.

                    1315 hrs. IED attack on a patrol traveling eastwards on Route MICHIGAN in the Khalidiyah area. The device was placed on the southern side of the road.
                    SOUTH
                    The increase in activity in Basrah continues following unofficial reports of an instruction having been issued by the Mehdi command to carry out attacks in the South in response to arrests of senior Sadrists and MNF operations.

                    The Military is unofficially reported to have issued warnings regarding a threat to the white (civilian) fleet North of Basrah and en route to the airport. A similar warning has been issued regarding the intention to kidnap MNF personnel.

                    It was also reported that. "A large number of US Army desert uniforms have been smuggled into the country by SCIRI. The guess is these uniforms will be used in an attempt to breech security and get VBIEDs closer to targets. Make sure just wearing a US uniform is not the ticket into your camps, the wearer still needs proper ID. Also need to be suspicious of people wearing US uniforms in situations that don't look right, ie someone in uniform driving a local garbage truck up to a camp check point. Wearing IPS uniforms has been a common tactic for the insurgents and this attempt is a logical next step to improve the tactic.

                    Most movement restrictions in Basrah have been lifted, however: the

                    situation is subject to change at very short notice and it is most strongly advised to consult the Military before moving.

                    Basrah

                    0055 hrs. Indirect fire attack (mortar) on an MNF base in Basrah.

                    0200 hrs. RPG and small arms fire attack on an MNF patrol in Basrah.

                    1051 hrs. IED found and cleared in the area of the Shatt Al-Arab Hotel in Basrah. Suwayrah

                    0730 hrs. Indirect fire attack (rocket) on an MNF base in Suwayrah.
                    MEDIA REPORTS.
                    GENERAL

                    IED and IDF are the preferred method of attacks, along with drive-by SAF and rolling ambushes, with the trend towards vehicle borne IED increasing. As high value targets become more difficult and with less opportunity, softer targets are expected become the main focus with numbers (mass casualties) being the primary objective to inspire fear and captivate the media.

                    Kidnapping of Iraqi employees working for Foreign Companies and international staff remain a high threat. Security measures should be reviewed with the aim of conducting awareness training, surveillance detection etc.."

                    Comment

                    • algy
                      Gold Gabber
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 504

                      #11
                      Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

                      Originally posted by dirtykarma
                      What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs"
                      This would be a good thing..
                      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                      "Too much love making, makes for poor match play." - Algy

                      Comment

                      • KinKyJ
                        Platinum Poser
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 13438

                        #12
                        Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

                        Originally posted by algy
                        This would be a good thing..
                        Like bumping threads that are 2 yrs old?

                        Comment

                        • thesightless
                          Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 13567

                          #13
                          Re: If America Were Iraq, What Would It Be Like?

                          Originally posted by Jenks
                          hell, i can say that now...


                          The United States is completely safe, but, stay away from North St. Louis city, Detroit, inner city DC, etc...

                          Terrorists don't have shit on North STL.
                          LOL

                          try upper harlem, lower bronx or brooklyn. so far we are averaging a shooting death every other day.
                          your life is an occasion, rise to it.

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