If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

[Miroslav]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

To address Miroslav's post, as he seems to have given his response some time.
To get something straight - first of all is that in no way is this film objective...It's aim is one and the same all the way through...but, even if you take it with a pinch of salt (which you should) it's interesting enough to provoke you to do some of your own research on the topics mentioned.

I hear ya... It has merit in terms of provoking thought, but ultimately I can't highly regard an presentation that incorporates some pretty sloppy logic. To me, that forfeits credibility right there. The movie also suffers from the same issues as many of the viewpoints it criticizes inasmuch it is at times extremely biased and selective in what it presents as "fact". But I can see how many people would readily buy into those "facts" on the basis of general cynicism with government, religion, etc.

[Shpira]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

Here is the other film...

[DjNutcase]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

9-11:
Again, take a number cuz you're already #1,485,294 on the whacky nutjob conspiracy list. Sorry, but I regard this stuff with a pretty heavy dose of skepticism.

agreed. skipped the 9/11 shit. that is plain retarded, i have seen them all, and i dont believe it. the history channel did a great job debunking everything.

I agree

Thinking that the government did 9/11 is indeed whacky. However, there is always something that sticks in my mind as "still undebunked"



This building wasn't even hit by a plane (ie no Jet Fuel in the equation). I have read the Popular Mechanics book and it does not touch this point:

Why does it fall so fast (the above is slow-mo), exactly like a controlled demolition ... absolutely symmetrically ? Doesn't it usually take demolition teams weeks of preparation to get all the columns to fail at the same time like that, so that the building falls into itself ?

I am really trying to just believe the government line on this issue but the lack of a proper, logical explanation for this is a big sticking point

[ShawnD64]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...74362583451279

Here is the other film...

thank you

[guntaro]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

woops, see below...

[DjNutcase]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

...

[guntaro]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

Christianity:
Pointing out the flaws of Christianity is always a good source of entertainment...but the movie fails to even do this properly. Many people are probably impressed with all the fancy astrology-based comparisons they throw at you in their arguments about Jesus and other deities centered around their supposed births on December 25th. But guess what? If Jesus existed, nobody knows when he was born; and religious scholarsh generally agree that he wasn't born on December 25th! This is such an idiotic and elementary mistake, probably even little children in catholic grade schools know this. Do a Google search if you don't believe me. That day just became established over a long period of time as the customary day for religious people to celebrate it. Apparently, the numbskulls who made this movie never went to Sunday school (I had to as a kid).

Most scholars agree that Jesus was most likely born in the summer or fall. If you believe what you have read in The Bible, then imagine 3 wise men walking through the desert during the end of December. Unlikely. How cold it must have been! You must take into account how paganism has fully and completely infiltrated Christianity in all it's present forms. Just more wool pulled over our eyes. And you may have missed the central point of this segment of the documentary. The film's attempt to discount religion, Christianity specifically, was part of a bigger idea that no matter what form of organized religion an individual practices, that form of organized religion was put in place to control you. You're admission to attending Sunday school is a testament to that control. I normally don't like to do this but I need to quote something to drive home my point. "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy". What day is the Sabbath? It ain't Sunday, that's for damn sure! It's the seventh day of the week, Saturday. The Sabbath actually extends from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Now imagine what kind of power our puppet masters must possess when they can convince millions of Christians to disobey their God and abandon their faith by worshiping on a day that is set aside for Sun (Sunday) worship. Now that's control!!!

World Bank:
Some of the points here are interesting; as I recall, there was another online documentary posted on [ms] before about the nature of the banking system that touched on some of this and I thought was more insightful and better laid out. I suspect that some implications of this are the closest in terms of accuracy, but I still take everything with a grain of salt after what they had to say about religion...

Occam's Razor: The most obvious reason is probably the correct one.

I can admit that my expertise and knowledge of the financial world is slim to none, but I offer this interesting tidbit of information; the literal Latin translation of the word "mortgage" means "death grip". Funny how this death grip applies to the biggest investment of most of our lives, the purchase of a house. And we will pay taxes on this enormous investment.

"There are two distinct classes of men...those who pay taxes and those who receive and live upon taxes."
-- Thomas Paine (1737–1809), pamphleteer and revolutionary

9-11:
Again, take a number cuz you're already #1,485,294 on the whacky nutjob conspiracy list. Sorry, but I regard this stuff with a pretty heavy dose of skepticism. There are more 9-11 conspiracy theories than you can shake a stick at, together with "The space aliens are running the government", "We never landed on the moon", and Elvis sightings at Wal-Mart. I'm certainly no expert on it all, but I'm confident that there is a lot of room for garbage here. This portion of the movie does nothing to impress me or to raise my perception of the producers' credibility.

"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child, of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our Homeland" ~ Adolph Hitler...also repeated by George W. Bush, exactly!!

Look at the comparison between early Nazi Germany before Hitler came to power and the U.S. now. The tactics used back then to manipulate the German people are the exact same tactics that are being used to manipulate us. Check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9PulYpjGs

Remember, there are 10 steps to closing down an open society [to gain complete control of that society]. Below are 5 of them, not in numerical sequential order. These 5 were chosen since they have already been accomplished. I grabbed them from this site...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html#article_continue

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy = Terrorists, insurgents, nuclear war, the decline of our health care system, the decline of our education system, the weakening of the dollar, failure to respond to natural disasters (New Orleans), neglect, irresponsibility, irrational thought, etc...

2. Create a gulag ( a prison system outside the rule of law) = Jails in Iraq Afghanistan, and Guantanamo in Cuba.

7. Target key individuals = Alberto Gonzales' (i.e. the Bush Administration's) firing of 8 U.S. Attorneys. Janet Reno's (i.e. the Clinton Administration's) firing of 93 U.S. Attorneys. Obvious that both strings are being pulled by the same entities.

9. Dissent equals treason = "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists"~ George W. Bush, September 20, 2001; "Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price"~Hillary Clinton, September 13, 2001. She will most likely win the Democratic nomination. But it doesn't make a difference whether a Dem. wins or a Rep. wins, the control eminates from behind the scenes.

10. Suspend the rule of law = The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gives the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens. Could the Marshall Law imposed in Pakistan be a test in order to gauge a society's reaction to it? Is it a trial run for what's to come?
This ball has been in motion for a long time....

[guntaro]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

Please remember that many people will simply not believe their government is capable of such a thing, even if the very same government caused the deaths of countless more people because they didn't tell people the air was toxic in the aftermath of the event. Even if the very same government lied to them about WMDs, spying, torture etc etc - they can't imagine they would be lying about 9/11... even if 9/11 was used as a reason for all of these things!

It's like telling a Bible-basher to research science or evolution - they just won't - for the simple reason that they actually may find facts which contradict their prior assumptions.

That's why rational discussion about these issues is impossible - stop trying !

You're right...but we can't stop trying...I was one of those types up until recently...

[guntaro]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

To address Miroslav's post, as he seems to have given his response some time.
To get something straight - first of all is that in no way is this film objective...It's aim is one and the same all the way through...but, even if you take it with a pinch of salt (which you should) it's interesting enough to provoke you to do some of your own research on the topics mentioned.

Agreed wholeheartedly. This film def. carried an agenda which is why I've been doing some research on my own and found a couple interesting facts. I refuse to believe everything I see, read, or hear. It's better to make an informed decision than not. (1) Prescott Bush (George’s grandfather) was the financial architect and banker for the Third Reich and Adolph Hitler and (2) Karl Rove is the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg. Roverer was Reich-Stat halter or Nazi State Party chairman for the region of Germany that the Rove or Roverer family is from. Heir Roverer was also the senior engineer in the Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurburo A. G. Engineering, the firm that built the Birkenau death camp.

These are undeniable facts. But don't take my word for it.

[Shpira]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

I just watched that video on youtube by Naomi Wolf. I remember a while ago I read her book on feminism and I remember thinking that she sounded like a very idealistic American and now this what a U turn. Just scares me to be honest...
I think some peoples should realy stand up and listen and think.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

[FM]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

Most scholars agree that Jesus was most likely born in the summer or fall. If you believe what you have read in The Bible, then imagine 3 wise men walking through the desert during the end of December. Unlikely. How cold it must have been! You must take into account how paganism has fully and completely infiltrated Christianity in all it's present forms. Just more wool pulled over our eyes. And you may have missed the central point of this segment of the documentary. The film's attempt to discount religion, Christianity specifically, was part of a bigger idea that no matter what form of organized religion an individual practices, that form of organized religion was put in place to control you. You're admission to attending Sunday school is a testament to that control. I normally don't like to do this but I need to quote something to drive home my point. "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy". What day is the Sabbath? It ain't Sunday, that's for damn sure! It's the seventh day of the week, Saturday. The Sabbath actually extends from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Now imagine what kind of power our puppet masters must possess when they can convince millions of Christians to disobey their God and abandon their faith by worshiping on a day that is set aside for Sun (Sunday) worship. Now that's control!!!

Occam's Razor: The most obvious reason is probably the correct one.

I can admit that my expertise and knowledge of the financial world is slim to none, but I offer this interesting tidbit of information; the literal Latin translation of the word "mortgage" means "death grip". Funny how this death grip applies to the biggest investment of most of our lives, the purchase of a house. And we will pay taxes on this enormous investment.

"There are two distinct classes of men...those who pay taxes and those who receive and live upon taxes."
-- Thomas Paine (1737–1809), pamphleteer and revolutionary



"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child, of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our Homeland" ~ Adolph Hitler...also repeated by George W. Bush, exactly!!

Look at the comparison between early Nazi Germany before Hitler came to power and the U.S. now. The tactics used back then to manipulate the German people are the exact same tactics that are being used to manipulate us. Check out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9PulYpjGs

Remember, there are 10 steps to closing down an open society [to gain complete control of that society]. Below are 5 of them, not in numerical sequential order. These 5 were chosen since they have already been accomplished. I grabbed them from this site...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html#article_continue

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy = Terrorists, insurgents, nuclear war, the decline of our health care system, the decline of our education system, the weakening of the dollar, failure to respond to natural disasters (New Orleans), neglect, irresponsibility, irrational thought, etc...

2. Create a gulag ( a prison system outside the rule of law) = Jails in Iraq Afghanistan, and Guantanamo in Cuba.

7. Target key individuals = Alberto Gonzales' (i.e. the Bush Administration's) firing of 8 U.S. Attorneys. Janet Reno's (i.e. the Clinton Administration's) firing of 93 U.S. Attorneys. Obvious that both strings are being pulled by the same entities.

9. Dissent equals treason = "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists"~ George W. Bush, September 20, 2001; "Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price"~Hillary Clinton, September 13, 2001. She will most likely win the Democratic nomination. But it doesn't make a difference whether a Dem. wins or a Rep. wins, the control eminates from behind the scenes.

10. Suspend the rule of law = The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gives the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens. Could the Marshall Law imposed in Pakistan be a test in order to gauge a society's reaction to it? Is it a trial run for what's to come?
This ball has been in motion for a long time....

Well put. Stuff like this often takes years to implement (even more now, then say when Nazi Germany rose to power for various reasons I feel), but once fully implemented and launched, the people don't realize the full connections until it's too late.

Bottom line really is to keep yourself up-to-date and taken care of as best as you can; even in times of "control", those who know well can minimize or negate the damages, whereas the rest of the sheep will be running around blindly looking for a leader.

[Miroslav]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

Most scholars agree that Jesus was most likely born in the summer or fall. If you believe what you have read in The Bible, then imagine 3 wise men walking through the desert during the end of December. Unlikely. How cold it must have been! You must take into account how paganism has fully and completely infiltrated Christianity in all it's present forms. Just more wool pulled over our eyes. And you may have missed the central point of this segment of the documentary. The film's attempt to discount religion, Christianity specifically, was part of a bigger idea that no matter what form of organized religion an individual practices, that form of organized religion was put in place to control you.

Correct me if I am wrong (it has been a while since I've looked at it), but to the best of my knowledge the Bible does not say that Jesus was born in December or that he was born on the 25th of anything. I believe that it doesn't give a specific month or day.

But the movie just says it was December 25th, and then it proceeds to base all kinds of astrological things from that. It just seems to be a rather poor basis of criticism to me, since if you ask most any Christian person they will freely tell you that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th; it's just an established convention and they don't base their faith on it.

I'm actually not religious at all. I just think this movie is poorly researched and features extremely selective and biased arguments in many places (beyond just the religion part) and, as such, it generally doesn't impress me - even though I agree with some of its overarching conclusions.

[88Mariner]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

i don't think the movie was saying, "oh he was born on this day, and therefore, look at all the similarities!"

i think the movie was saying, christians ADOPTED this 25th day of December-> look at all the connections to this date regarding why it may have been chosen by the church.

jesus definitely was not born on the 25th of december (or even if at all). but do note that this day was adopted. for what reason we don't know exactly, but the video provides decent explanation...especially in light of the fact that what the bible became was decided upon by a group of men.

[Shpira]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

Correct me if I am wrong (it has been a while since I've looked at it), but to the best of my knowledge the Bible does not say that Jesus was born in December or that he was born on the 25th of anything. I believe that it doesn't give a specific month or day.

But the movie just says it was December 25th, and then it proceeds to base all kinds of astrological things from that. It just seems to be a rather poor basis of criticism to me, since if you ask most any Christian person they will freely tell you that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th; it's just an established convention and they don't base their faith on it.

I'm actually not religious at all. I just think this movie is poorly researched and features extremely selective and biased arguments in many places (beyond just the religion part) and, as such, it generally doesn't impress me - even though I agree with some of its overarching conclusions. The grand irony of it is that this movie exhorts people to think for themselves and to question what they see...and then proceeds in large part to feed people a bunch of bs which they oftentimes obligingly swallow without much question.

To be honest I don't think that the reason this film has a chapter on religion is to discuss the day of Jesus's birth. It just deals with christianity more because it is the most popular religion in the world today. It is critical of all religions.

[Who?]

Re: If You Want To See The World In A Different Perspective!?

This film's intentions was to shock a specific target audience into thinking differently.
It took a charge at Christianity cause it's the major religion of the US, took a different look at 9/11 (major turning point of country) and at central banking - again, solely to shock these people out of their sheep mentality.
Is it the truth? I don't know. I haven't researched the information about 9/11 & banking enough to say (I've studied religion enough to know that part was for the most part accurate to the theory of ancient astronomy knowledge).
The underlining issue is the fact that America's education (in current & world affairs, domestic issues, etc.) has fallen greatly, fear is being utilized by our government to control and no citizen knows how or has the guts to stand up against the administration. Politicians (from both parties) take advantage of the fact that most Americans are apathetic to politics or world affairs.
The majority of Americans need to re-educate themselves in the Constitution and realize that they have the power to rise up as citizens and get rid of those in Washington - not just impeachment. This country was built for the people by the people and can be changed by the people whenever the current government fails to maintain both domestic and foreign security for its citizens. If the majority ever choose that the current government is not creating policies that guarantee American safety, it can be changed. Don't believe me, check the Constitution. Even though Bush and the administration don't follow it, doesn't make invalid.
However, the best and most realistic thing Americans should do is to educate themselves on all areas of things in both domestic and world policies/affairs. Don't take someone else's word for truth - search for yourself. Decide for yourself. Don't just use the media, search other avenues for different points of perspective. The more educated and involved the American population is with it's government, the better the system will work for them.

Again though, don't just take my word for all of this - people need to search for themselves to find out.