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How many times is Bush gonna play this "flip-flop" card? He's also used the "wrong place, wrong time...." line 3 times already and I'm sure some speech writer put that together for him.
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin
Just finished watching and if I had to pick a winner I'd go with Kerry. He looked calmer and had good responses to the President's accusations and rebuttals. At the DNC, Kerry looked nervous and not confident. I didn't get a sense of nervousness(slightly) and he was well spoken. The President repeated himself many times and had more of a simple ineffective message than Kerry did.
Unfortunately, I don't see much change happening no matter who wins this election. Both candidates agree on Iraq and spending more time and lives there. Kerry seems as hawkish as Bush does. Bush is more of the same per Kerry and Kerry is tax and increase the military which are a drain on the economy.
Some say this is the most important election of our generation. I'm starting to think the Election in 2000 was the most important.
Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte
The President repeated himself many times and had more of a simple ineffective message than Kerry did..
Originally posted by neoee";p="
How many times is Bush gonna play this "flip-flop" card? He's also used the "wrong place, wrong time...." line 3 times already and I'm sure some speech writer put that together for him.
This is the one thing I hate about Bush the most...he repeats himself ENDLESSY!!!!!
Everyone always talk about how good Bush is in debates. Well, I personally don't see it. I've said for the longest time that he is not a good speaker. I cringe at least 10 times everytime I watch him give a speech. How many times can he use the word "freedom" in one speech??? He is in desperate need of a new speech writer.
Never the less, someones abitlity to speak does not mean as much to me as what they do. The guy can't speak..but at least he means what he says. He just doesn't say it very well.
If I had to pick a winner...I couldn't. Seemed like more of the same to me. Kerry is a flip-flopper, Bush is out of touch with what is really going on in Iraq and on and on.
Yawn. Wake me up when someone actually has something new to say.
You know, for the first time this election season, I actually feel pretty good about Kerry. He was going to get my vote regardless, but he exceeded my expectations and Bush did not live up to his reputation, IMHO. Bush looked ill-prepared and flustered at times.
I'm biased, obviously, but I really think Kerry scored some points tonight. He didn't hit a long ball, but I do think he at least gave the folks that were leaning towards Bush something more to think about.
I'll be curious to hear other folks thoughts on it in the days ahead.
You know, for the first time this election season, I actually feel pretty good about Kerry. He was going to get my vote regardless...
Yet you try to make it sound like us Bush supporters are following blindly. Basically, what you are saying is that all of this Kerry ass-licking you've been doing this whole time was for a candidate you weren't even sure about.
Sounds less like Kerry supporting and more like plain ol' Bush hating to me.
I amazingly managed to stay awake until 4:30 my time to watch the entire thing. From the outset, it looked like Kerry might have scored a few more points than Bush - no slam dunk win, but he appeared a little more poised and "with it" than Bush on some of the questions.
Points that stuck out...
Bush concentrated too fucking much on the whole flip-flop thing - he got to the point where he was just repeating himself needlessly. On the other side, Kerry seemed to do a good job of countering some of those criticisms decently well - he might gain some stability in the eyes of some.
I think Kerry will score big points for his answer to the "biggest threat to national security" question. Very resolute about stopping nuclear proliferation. This was his biggest point in the entire debate, and I think this might come out as where people view him strongest on national security. Bush sort of fumbled the question in a way - he babbled quite a bit and didn't seem as strong as Kerry on this specific point.
Kerry had a bad habit of just not answering the fucking question. He took any opportunity possible to bash on Bush - even when it was at the cost of giving a firm and decisive answer (probably didn't have one to give). I counted only 3 (or 4) times in the entire debate where he gave any specific instances of what he would actually do differently than Bush. But this has been my major complaint of Kerry's campaign for the past few months - he is still going on the "anybody but Bush" ideology with his campaign and hasn't really done enough to show why he is better.
Bush missed the point a lot. Several instances where he didn't quite answser what was asked and just repeated himself. He had 3 or 4 stock answers that he just repeated over and over again. This might not sit so well with people. Yet he did seem quite amicable and down-to-earth, which is one of his strongest qualities with the public.
Both seemed equally hawkish. Kerry seemed to put a greater importance on anti-nuclear proliferations, so I have to wonder how he would react to the Iran or North Korea situations. If anything, Kerry looks to have a bigger boner for North Korea.
No matter who wins, we're in for more of the same.
Overall, I think Kerry will make some small gains from this debate. He barely eeked this one out, IMO. If he handles the other 2 similarly, we will once again have some suspense come Nov. 2.
Yet you try to make it sound like us Bush supporters are following blindly.
As to those "Bush supporters" that actually believe that everything is hunky dory here and abroad, well, yeah, that thought had occurred to me. I don't see how a person could rationally look at Bush's track record for the last four years apart from the few days following 9/11 and honestly think this guy is some sort of stud -- better than the alternative, maybe, but a great and awesome leader, no.
Originally posted by _evangelion_";p="
Basically, what you are saying is that all of this Kerry ass-licking you've been doing this whole time was for a candidate you weren't even sure about.
Sounds less like Kerry supporting and more like plain ol' Bush hating to me.
I'm not sure what "Kerry ass-licking" you're referring to because most of what I post is more anti-Bush than pro-Kerry, but you're basically correct. If you look around the country, you'll find I'm not the only person out there that would take a bag of wet hair over Bush. What's your point?
That "flip flop" tag is specious beyond any defense. Kerry is a grown man. I should hope that he would have changed his mind a few times during his life.
Goodbye Miserable Failure.
Cat formerly known as Cheshire
*cue imperial death march"
I agree with everyone on this board, we all watched the same thing, and it is agreed that kerry now might be living up to his 'underdog' 'come from behind' reputation. Everyone knows I support Bush, but I was uneasy in my seat many times as Bush was speaking. I've always enjoyed Bush's speaches, but he has to bring more articulation, and substance in these debates to keep his position.
Oh and VenomPoisonKelly, miserable failure because Bush wont let you and your 7 illegitamate kids stay on welfare the rest of your life. Shame for you. ADVICE: start judging the president on reality, not hypothetical or theoretical possibilities. Thanks, now back to your babies diapers.
"when you go to the dentist to get your wisdom teeth pulled out and you wake up after the operation with your pants unzipped, that means you dont have to pay the bill".
Oh and VenomPoisonKelly, miserable failure because Bush wont let you and your 7 illegitamate kids stay on welfare the rest of your life. Shame for you. ADVICE: start judging the president on reality, not hypothetical or theoretical possibilities. Thanks, now back to your babies diapers.
son
I'd call you an asshole but that would be giving other assholes a bad name.
You know nothing about me and mercifully I know nothing about you. Let's keep it that way. Keep your personal attacks for the schoolyard.
Cat formerly known as Cheshire
*cue imperial death march"
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