Economic Stimulus Package

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  • FM
    Wooooooo!
    • Jun 2004
    • 5361

    #16
    Re: Economic Stimulus Package

    seriously wonder how much stupid shit people will buy with these checks.

    Some of those ghetto kids will probably be blinging out their car with this check

    Mom with like 5 kids, married...if the kids portion holds true, that's a nice $2700 check (bout a month or 2's pay easy).

    Spend it on junk, back to where you were...I love it.

    (that's notwithstanding of course if you are in decent shape...then by all means, of course spend the damn thing )
    FM

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    • deusdeus
      Fresh Peossy
      • Jan 2008
      • 41

      #17
      Re: Economic Stimulus Package

      That's just it..most of these people who are hurting aren't going to guy out and buy goods/services. They are going to use it to pay bills...utilities, rent, cable. Or they will hold on to it and spend it in a month or two on...bills.

      The government is hoping everyone will go out to XYZ retailer and splurge it...not happening.

      Comment

      • deusdeus
        Fresh Peossy
        • Jan 2008
        • 41

        #18
        Re: Economic Stimulus Package

        Thats just it...most of these people who are already hurting are going to take this money and spend it on bills...utlities, cable, etc. The government is hoping everyone will take the money and go to XYZ retailer or Joe Schmoe Services and splurge it.

        Not going to happen.

        Comment

        • jasonemryss
          Getting Somewhere
          • Jan 2008
          • 137

          #19
          Re: Economic Stimulus Package

          Those rebates are nice, kinda like a thank you after 8 years of being the worst president since w.g. harding. The first rebate he doled out when he first got into office came out of social security and then when the money started running out he talked about doing away with it. When Clinton left we had a surplus now we have like an 8 trillion dollar deficit and a trillion of that went to halliburton plus another trillion they took in oil from Iraq. Besides the assault on my ideology, The sad thing is that other that $3 gallon of gas I haven't been affected all that much by this administrations debacle of a government.

          Comment

          • 88Mariner
            My dick is smaller
            • Nov 2006
            • 7128

            #20
            Re: Economic Stimulus Package

            Originally posted by toasty
            Looks like those of us in the US are poised to get another tax rebate check, was curious what people thought about it. I'll be honest, I think receiving a check for $1600 is great, and it will certainly be put to good use. I'm not sure that I agree that it's the best way to prevent an impending recession, though.

            For me, we've got some work around the house we were needing to do, and that extra cash will help offset that, which is nice. For the people that are really struggling, though, does this really get at the heart of the problem? Maybe it gets bill collectors off their backs for a few months, but what happens after that? Seems like a Band-Aid, sorta the difference between giving a man a fish and teaching him how to fish. That said, I don't know that spending money on bloated government programs designed to spur the economy is the answer, either. Maybe the creation of government jobs that address another specific need, like infrastructure, would be the best answer? I dunno, I really don't.

            Don't get me wrong, I'm all for tax breaks. Just wondering if this is actually likely to stimulate the economy in a meaningful way. Anyone with some economic expertise care to chime in on this?
            when the government spending is out of control, providing the incentive, AND MEANS, for the public to do the same is irresponsible, much less idiotic.

            I think a better economic stimulus package is to get rid of about 75% of the bureaucracy in the beltway.
            you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

            it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

            Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

            ----PEACE-----

            Comment

            • Miroslav
              WHOA I can change this!1!
              • Apr 2006
              • 4122

              #21
              Re: Economic Stimulus Package

              Originally posted by 88Mariner
              when the government spending is out of control, providing the incentive, AND MEANS, for the public to do the same is irresponsible, much less idiotic.
              Well, but the thing is...ultimately, consumption is the only thing that keeps our living standard going. If we want good economic times, we (consumers, businesses, government) have to spend; GDP doesn't grow if we all stick our cash under the mattress and live off the land. And so from an economic standpoint, it's actually quite theoretically sound for the policymakers to provide people with incentives and cushions that will marginally prop up their consumption.

              Of course, the same key to getting us out of this mess (spending) is also what got us into it in the first place... Welcome to the modern economic business cycle; it's difficult to break precisely because of this paradoxical nature.
              Last edited by Miroslav; January 29, 2008, 11:41:48 PM.
              mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

              Comment

              • lilsensa
                DUDERZ get a life!!!
                • Jun 2004
                • 6675

                #22
                Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                Bitch better have my money!

                RIP ~ Steve James







                Comment

                • AntonyM
                  DUDERZ get a life!!!
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 6415

                  #23
                  Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                  Take your rebate and donate to MS
                  Drug money for most IMO
                  Originally posted by Shpira
                  So came back last night...
                  Sven Vath was amazing...he played a god damn killer set...ended up going to that and came to at like 10 am in some whore house in south Amsterdam...no idea how I ended up there...friday was a bit of a blur got really drunk and visited several parties can't remember a whole lot to be honest hehe...saturday was probably the best day that I recall...started up in the nearest coffee shop and going from party to party...beautiful woman, beer and weed...finished the night by taking some shrooms and listening to an amazing elke kleijn set...sunday...i met a nice girl who worked at one of the coffee shops and ended up talking to her for like 6 hours...was supposed to meet her at some DnB party...but instead went for a steak and walked around red light district bars drinking and smoking...monday took it easy went to a coffee shop and took a taxi to airport....

                  All in all...I think I will be going back there some time soon
                  Originally posted by Illuminate
                  Let me get this straight.

                  So white-middle class Americans have been told by their Television sets to be fearful of:

                  1. Mexicans/Latinos from the South bringing drugs and killings n' shit.
                  2. African Americans cause mos def they are raging a race war and want to occupy America like how the plebs occupied Wall St.
                  3. Iranians/Afghans/Any one of middle eastern origin to be quite frank, cause you know Islam...
                  4. North Koreans/Chinese cause you know everything...

                  Am I close here?

                  Comment

                  • 88Mariner
                    My dick is smaller
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 7128

                    #24
                    Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                    Originally posted by Miroslav
                    Well, but the thing is...ultimately, consumption is the only thing that keeps our living standard going. If we want good economic times, we (consumers, businesses, government) have to spend; GDP doesn't grow if we all stick our cash under the mattress and live off the land. And so from an economic standpoint, it's actually quite theoretically sound for the policymakers to provide people with incentives and cushions that will marginally prop up their consumption.

                    Of course, the same key to getting us out of this mess (spending) is also what got us into it in the first place... Welcome to the modern economic business cycle; it's difficult to break precisely because of this paradoxical nature.
                    When the government has gone so far as to damage the economy, the clear response would be to eliminate thier hold on regulating the market.

                    Tax rebates fail because they do not encourage productivity or wealth creation. To receive a rebate, nobody has to work, save, invest, or create any new wealth. Every dollar that government rebates "inject" into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. No new spending power is created. It is merely redistributed from one group of people to another.
                    you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                    it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                    Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                    ----PEACE-----

                    Comment

                    • Miroslav
                      WHOA I can change this!1!
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 4122

                      #25
                      Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                      Originally posted by 88Mariner
                      When the government has gone so far as to damage the economy, the clear response would be to eliminate thier hold on regulating the market.
                      Well, first of all, I'm not sure what exactly you mean as to how the government has "damaged" the economy...if you're talking about the current mess we're in, I'd say that you should look to the private sector for a lot of that responsibility; the government did not force banks to securitize mortgages (many of them apparently sub-prime) and pass them on to investors as investment grade.


                      Originally posted by 88Mariner
                      Tax rebates fail because they do not encourage productivity or wealth creation. To receive a rebate, nobody has to work, save, invest, or create any new wealth. Every dollar that government rebates "inject" into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. No new spending power is created. It is merely redistributed from one group of people to another.
                      I'm sorry, but I can't resist. I'm not saying this from a mean standpoint, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on the fiscal policy, and I suspect that the majority of economics/business experts from John Maynard Keynes onward would as well. To say that tax rebates have no influence across the boards on productivity, wealth creation, and spending power is patently false (take any corporate finance valuation class, and you'll very quickly learn the impact of taxes and tax shields in your NPV calculations). The point of fiscal policy is not, as you suggest, the "benefit" that supposedly occurred when people got the tax refund for free; the point of fiscal policy is the benefit of what will happen once people have the cash and put some of the capital to work. In other words, fiscal policy is about augmenting the money supply in the economy and thereby stimulating the process of wealth creation.

                      When you reduce the effective tax variable relative to its past point, you are effectively putting more money into circulation then would have been the case otherwise (all else being equal). When you change money supply, you're actually potentially changing a lot from a macroeconomic standpoint; you're impacting future inflation rates, employment levels, and investment/saving/consumption trends. Under typical circumstances, consumers, investors, and businesses will put some of that "new" capital to work; they will invest or spend some portion of it and thereby do all of the things that you say can't be done - create wealth, spur productivity, augment spending. Moreover, when they do this there is a multiplier effect that comes into play (the dollar you spend is someone else's income; they turn around and spend some of that dollar...) that ultimately makes the impact to be many times the magnitude of the original face value of the tax breaks.

                      Does this mean that we can do all this and avoid a recession? Not necessarily at all. Fiscal policy is no "silver bullet" to our problems; it has its own drawbacks and limitations contingent on a whole lot of other variables in the current economic environment. My point is simply that, overall, the theory is not as nutty as it sounds and it can have a real impact on us.
                      mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

                      Comment

                      • 88Mariner
                        My dick is smaller
                        • Nov 2006
                        • 7128

                        #26
                        Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                        i stopped at Keynes. just to let you know.
                        you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                        it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                        Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                        ----PEACE-----

                        Comment

                        • jasonemryss
                          Getting Somewhere
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 137

                          #27
                          Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                          I liked what you have to say and all but what was your point, a sound fiscal policy?? How many US's are there? there is the rural US and the Urban Us, and more. I see a lot of signs pointing towards a global recession.

                          Comment

                          • Miroslav
                            WHOA I can change this!1!
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 4122

                            #28
                            Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                            Originally posted by 88Mariner
                            i stopped at Keynes. just to let you know.
                            Fair enough. Just understand that I didn't come up with all that stuff on my own; you're fundamentally going against core principles of modern economic knowledge that have been studied, tested, and applied worldwide for the better part of a century. I've made my point, so I'll endeavor to stop my comments on this from here on out.
                            mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

                            Comment

                            • 88Mariner
                              My dick is smaller
                              • Nov 2006
                              • 7128

                              #29
                              Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                              No, I'm going against an antiqueted and flawed economic theory. And 'flawed' is not my opinion, it was the opinion of Keynes himself. Too bad he died before he could make good on the promise to correct his mistakes. I'll make no further comment, save that I urge you to read Hayek and Friedman. Start with "The Road to Serfdom".
                              you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                              it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                              Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                              ----PEACE-----

                              Comment

                              • Miroslav
                                WHOA I can change this!1!
                                • Apr 2006
                                • 4122

                                #30
                                Re: Economic Stimulus Package

                                Originally posted by 88Mariner
                                No, I'm going against an antiqueted and flawed economic theory. And 'flawed' is not my opinion, it was the opinion of Keynes himself. Too bad he died before he could make good on the promise to correct his mistakes. I'll make no further comment, save that I urge you to read Hayek and Friedman. Start with "The Road to Serfdom".
                                I have to comment again because I'm familiar with that book; I actually had to study it out the ass for one of my electives. Look, I'm certainly not arguing here that centrally planned economies are superior to free market economies. I believe that free market forces generally provide for the most efficient allocation of resources. I just think it's rather extreme to conceptually lump macroeconomic management policies into the same camp as totalitarian command economies. Today, even most conservatives do not argue for a completely unregulated free market. I would argue that there is some role for the government in setting broad regulatory and macroeconomic policy, even within a fundamentally free market economy.

                                That said...my original argument wasn't actually that fiscal policy is necessarily "good" or when/how/whether it should be used. My point simply was that changes in money supply can actually have real economic effects (good or bad).
                                mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

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