VP Debate

[BSully828]

Thoughts? Opinions? I thought they both did a pretty good job, Cheney smacked Edwards around a bit, Edwards threw a couple jabs of his own in. Both sides spit out some false information, both had their talking points down pat - but I give the edge to Cheney, Edwards at times tried too hard to play the audience rather than stick to the questions. Both of them screwed up their closing arguments in a few spots - Cheney looked like he got lost a bit with all the info he wanted to get out, and Edwards tried his best to be Sam Waterston. That being said, if Bush is smart - he paid close attention to how Cheney held himself last night.

One thing I know for sure is that somebody is going to put some little flash movie together regarding the moment when Cheney thanked Edwards for the comments about his daughter. Edit together some long takes of them looking at each other, play a little "Dreamweaver" in the background - instant classic.

[Jenks]

thought is was good on both sides.

what i constantly don't like about the Edwards/Kerry Campaign (purposely reversed names because i think Edwards is ten time the person Kerry is,) is that they both are so vague about their plan for national security. Simply saying "We're going to kill terrorists" doesn't tell me a goddammed thing. And further more, while Cheney tossed around a lot of numbers and stats, Edwards really didn't have much response directly to those numbers other than just being a good debater and renewing his own points.

The Haliburton issue, Cheney constantly dodged and Edwards constantly kept throwing it back in his face. But after awhile when Cheney didn't really respond directly to the Haliburton issue, for Edwards to throw it back out in response to Cheney's direct attacks, it was just like, "yeah, we've heard the halliburton thing before, matter of fact, like 5 mintues ago."

Meanwhile, Cheney is ripping Edwards apart on his lack of service in the Senate, missed 70% of the votes ffs. Thought it was brilliant when Cheney said, "I'm there every tuesday when we're in session, have been for years, and the first time i met you was when we walked on this stage....Senator Gone!" OH SNAP!!!

However, with both VP candidates skilled in debate, it's tough to pick a clear winner as neither one really did more damage than the other one. I do think that Cheney helped the Bush campaign more than Edwards helped Kerry. Edwards drove home the same points Kerry has been saying on the campaign trail, while Cheney said all the things correctly that dumbass Bush can never spit out. Gotta give the edge to the (R) Campaign in this debate for that reason alone.

[LobsterClan]

Meanwhile, Cheney is ripping Edwards apart on his lack of service in the Senate, missed 70% of the votes ffs. Thought it was brilliant when Cheney said, "I'm there every tuesday when we're in session, have been for years, and the first time i met you was when we walked on this stage....Senator Gone!" OH SNAP!!!

It's really simple to debate when youre just flat-out making shit up. Not only did Cheney only serve as the presiding officer of the Senate TWICE only in nearly 4 years, see http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/11163/2940
for the story, but he also has met Edwards several times before this including:



From the Breakfast Club Prayer, 2001. Cheneys Lies

[Jenks]

yep, saw that after i responded. they're politicians, they both made shit up.

i still contend edwards didn't do anything to help or hurt kerry, while Cheney did help Bush.

[LobsterClan]

yep, saw that after i responded. they're politicians, they both made shit up.

i still contend edwards didn't do anything to help or hurt kerry, while Cheney did help Bush.

I've seen plenty of spots where Cheney lied. Thus far, I have yet to see any area where Edwards just flat-out lied.

[Jenks]

ok you win. go go go rah rah rah.

[LobsterClan]

ok you win. go go go rah rah rah.

That was far too easy, I expected a challenge.

[Jenks]

lol, that's going to be difficult, because i don't give a flying fuck.

[neur0t0xin64]

Re: VP Debate

Showing up for a breakfast where no votes are cast is clearly no excuse to miss 70% of potential votes. Frankly i'm glad he and Kerry don't show up to vote b/c Kerry = 1st and Edwards = 3rd for most liberal senators decided by a nonpartisan group! Another attempt by liberals to catch Cheney in a "lie" and overseeing the LOGIC!

get real, u guys are going to lose....the american people cant be fooled that easily

[Jenks]

I am both SHOCKED and OUTRAGED at the voting record of Edwards and Kerry. I am equally "" and "" at their approach to defending this country...which i'm not even quite clear what it is. And THAT is my biggest problem with those two.

look, i'm not saying Cheney is an angel here, nor am i saying Edwards did bad. If this was a contest to see who contributed to their respective campaign more in this debate, it was Bush/Cheney who benefited more. I heard nothing "new" from Edwards that i've not heard since he and kerry have been campainging. He was still solid as a fucking brick on the debate end of things, props. However, Bush is the worst debater i've ever seen. EVER. I mean...Fucking EVER!! Everything Cheney said, with respect to numbers and stats, what they've achieved, albeit allegedly, in 4 years on domestic and foreign affairs is stuff i've never heard out of bush, unless he's farting some numbers out of his ass in some discombobulated spasm of a response that happens to be somewhat logical. Edwards did a good job. So did Cheney. I think the republican camp ought to be happy with the way that debate went. Now friday Bush can go fuck it up again...god love the guy tho.

[digitalghostx]

Re: VP Debate

I think both men did as well as they could, but I think Edwards came out more nice, friendly and personable and Cheney seemed very serious and direct. I think Edwards didn't really get any good jabs in, but he presented the Kerry/Edwards political points well enough. Cheney certainly brought his experience to bear on the situation which Edwards humbly admitted he was lacking (good for him). The problem is I think people are voting mostly on security issues and I think if that is a measure of the debate, then I think Cheney won, it's dam hard for Edwards to make people believe that he and Kerry are really going to make a difference in the War on Terror and Iraq.

[Jenks]

Re: VP Debate

it's dam hard for Edwards to make people believe that he and Kerry are really going to make a difference in the War on Terror and Iraq.

all i keep hearing from that camp on security is, "We will hunt down and kill the terrorists!"

how?

[LobsterClan]

Re: VP Debate

Showing up for a breakfast where no votes are cast is clearly no excuse to miss 70% of potential votes. Frankly i'm glad he and Kerry don't show up to vote b/c Kerry = 1st and Edwards = 3rd for most liberal senators decided by a nonpartisan group! Another attempt by liberals to catch Cheney in a "lie" and overseeing the LOGIC!

get real, u guys are going to lose....the american people cant be fooled that easily

Jesus, obviously when the two have been running for president, they're going to be missing a lot of votes. What is Cheney's excuse for only showing up twice to lead the Senate? And if you look at the voting record, they've always participated in votes that are close.

Furthermore, the crap about "most liberal senator" is total and utter BULLSHIT. If you ask me, neither of them are liberal enough, and after listening to Edwards last night go on about "gay marriage" you are a total and complete idiot if you think he is a liberal.

Instead of repeating, tired, incorrect Republican talking points, why don't you try doing a little research and find things out for yourself. You can start with this site right here: http://mostliberalsenator.blogspot.com/

[LobsterClan]

Re: VP Debate

it's dam hard for Edwards to make people believe that he and Kerry are really going to make a difference in the War on Terror and Iraq.

all i keep hearing from that camp on security is, "We will hunt down and kill the terrorists!"

how?

Why don't you try reading his website? It's rather simple to remember: http://www.johnkerry.com

Here is an excerpt from his plan against Global Terrorism:

V. DENY TERRORISTS SAFE HAVENS AND NEW RECRUITS. John Kerry knows that to win the war on terror, America must use all elements of national power to deny terrorists new havens and recruits and prevent terrorists from poisoning minds around the world. America must show that we are willing to use our economic power for the common good; to defeat abject poverty and disease that destroy lives and create failed states in every part of the world.

Work to Prevent Weak and Failing States from Becoming Terrorist Havens. Kerry will work with our allies and the international community to develop comprehensive strategies to strengthen weak states and secure and rebuild failed states around the world.

Strategically Target Assistance to Weak and Failed States. As president, Kerry will provide strategically focused assistance to weak and failed states to help them build democratic institutions, better secure their territories, and achieve broad-based economic development. Kerry will help them increase their capacity to meet the needs of their citizens for decent, basic education, basic health and disease prevention services and support the development of small and medium-size enterprises.
Develop Rapid Response Capacity. John Kerry will develop an enlarged country-in-transition fund to enable the U.S. government to respond swiftly to crises and opportunities in weak and failed states. With our allies, we will also support initiatives to increase the capacity of developing countries and regional organizations such as the African Union and ASEAN to respond rapidly with peacekeeping force to prevent and resolve conflicts. The United States must provide the leadership needed for this effort to really succeed.
Refocus Diplomatic, Intelligence and Other Assets on Failed States. The 2002 National Security Strategy stated: ?America is now threatened less by conquering states than we are by failing ones.? Yet the Bush administration?s distribution of our diplomatic, intelligence and other assets does not reflect that. A Kerry administration will ensure that America has the best intelligence possible on weak and failed states.
Share Burden with Allies and International Community. America cannot bear the burden of strengthening weak states and securing and rebuilding failed states around the world alone ? our allies, regional powers and international institutions must also do their share. Kerry will rebuild our alliances and bring others in the international community together to address the risks that failed states pose to people all over the world.
Lead a Global Education Initiative. Under a new Global Education Initiative, America will lead the world to provide universal basic education by 2015. It is critical that we not only seek to empower reformers to achieve quality public education through the Arab and Muslim world ? where a lack of funding has helped foster radical schools that teach hate ? but that we also support a global effort for free universal education throughout Africa and the developing world. Increasing education in poor nations ? especially for girls ? has been shown to be extremely effective in raising incomes, reducing infant mortality and preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.
Cancel the Debt of the World?s Poorest Countries. John Kerry supports wiping clean the debts of the world?s most heavily indebted poor countries (HIPC) that are reforming their economies and investing in their human capital. Debt relief will give them a fresh start to invest in health, education, and infrastructure. And Kerry will direct his Secretary of the Treasury to initiate negotiations with the Paris Club of Official Creditors, the World Bank, the IMF, and others with the goal of modifying the Enhanced Heavily Indebted Poor Countries Initiative to provide substantially greater debt reduction to a broader set of poor countries. Kerry understands that debt cancellation should not come at the expense of future foreign aid flows to poor countries.
Address Global Health Priorities. Epidemics can decimate societies and contribute to weak and failed states, which can become safe havens and recruiting grounds for terrorists and other criminal elements. John Kerry will invest more in health care infrastructure in weak and failing states, and dedicate greater attention and increased resources to training health care professionals and community health care workers. As president, Kerry will double the U.S. funding to fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria to $30 billion by 2008 and encourage other countries, corporations and foundations to do their share. And in a Kerry administration, global health policy will be driven by science instead of ideology.
VI. SUPPORT DEMOCRACIES IN THE ARAB AND MUSLIM WORLD. We must support the development of free and democratic societies in the Arab and Muslim world to win the war of ideas. While countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Uzbekistan, have at times helped us in the hunt for individual terrorists, they have not always been good allies in turning back the terrorists? cause. In a Kerry administration, America will be clear with repressive governments in the region that we expect to see them change, not just for our sake but for their own survival. And Kerry will restore America?s moral authority by leading by example and by promoting respect for the rule of law.

Launch a Major Public Diplomacy Initiative. Kerry will lead a major initiative in public diplomacy to train a new generation of American scholars, diplomats, military officers, and democracy builders who understand the Arab and Muslim world, just as we built our knowledge of the Soviet empire during the Cold War. And Kerry will open diplomatic posts and invest in academic programs, scholarships and exchanges with the Muslim world so we can build better bridges and craft more effective policies.
Convene a Summit to Increase Mutual Cooperation. As president, John Kerry will convene ? and attend ? a summit with European partners and leaders from the Muslim world to discuss how we can collectively work together to establish new programs aimed at increasing mutual understanding, economic growth, and the fight against terror.
VII. RESTORE ALLIANCES TO COMBAT TERRORIST NETWORKS ACROSS THE GLOBE. Kerry will ensure that America always remains the world?s paramount military power. He will also restore alliances to magnify our power, and increase intelligence and law enforcement coordination so that we can stop terrorists hidden around the world before they can strike at us.

[Jenks]

that stuff is funny.

you go JFK!