VP Debate

[BSully828]

Re: VP Debate

Considering the fact that we're already doing most of those things - I'd say Kerry's got the right idea.

[mixu]

Re: VP Debate

I liked the fact that Cheney quoted the wrong website...

The two candidates performed true to their highly contrasting characters. Mr Cheney was downbeat and occasionally contemptuous of his opponent, declining to address at all many criticisms involving Halliburton's no-bid contracts in Iraq. Instead he simply pointed the audience to a website - although, embarrassingly, the address he gave - factcheck.com - was incorrect, and linked to an anti-Bush site run by the philanthropist George Soros, rather than to the site he meant to promote, factcheck.org.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,,1320825,00.html

[BSully828]

Re: VP Debate

That was great - Cheney accidentally telling the nation to check out a anti-Bush website. He probably lobbed some f-bombs around after he figured that one out.

[toasty]

Re: VP Debate

Edwards and Cheney have such different styles, it is tough, I think, to say that one person "won," b/c it is difficult to be sure you are comparing apples to apples. Cheney (unlike his boss) is extremely well-versed in policy issues and came armed with the information you would expect from someone with his kind of experience. He presented his responses in a very straight-forward, matter-of-fact sort of way that gives him an air of credibility. I thought the format played to his strengths well.

Edwards, on the other hand, brings a more upbeat air and had decent enough grip on the issues to talk intelligently. I also found him to be more persuassive, likeable, and forward-looking, but he didn't say as much substantively as Cheney.

I would call the debate a tie or maybe a slight edge to Cheney for his obvious vast knowledge, but I think that actually gives the edge to Edwards in the big picture in that there was more on the line for Bush/Cheney. The Bush/Cheney campaign has been trying to regain their traction since the first debate. By not getting his ass kicked and holding his own, I think Edwards accomplished what he needed to accomplish by not allowing Bush/Cheney to regain any momentum.

One could argue that Cheney stopped the bleeding, but it will ultimately be much ado about nothing because there is such a short news cycle before the next debate tomorrow and not a lot of time to really allow Bush or Cheney to capitalize on it. I think history will ultimately look back on this debate and say that it played very little role in the outcome of this election.

My $.02, anyway.

[toasty]

Re: VP Debate

all i keep hearing from that camp on security is, "We will hunt down and kill the terrorists!"

how?

Probably roughly the same way that Bush has, ultimately. There is one thing that Kerry brings to the table that Bush cannot, however, and that is the potential to bring other countries into the fold. I don't know that Kerry will be successful, but Bush cannot now go to other countries that are not currently part of the Iraq effort, for example, and ask them to participate because he has already burned too many bridges. Kerry can at least ask.

Bush cannot (and would not) go to Germany, for example, and say, "look, this whole war thing was a collossal mistake, but I've fucked up things so badly now that it affects your security as well, so could you please come help us?" Kerry is not bound by his own past in this regard and may be able to restore some credibility to the effort. Even though he has said "wrong war, wrong time," (as Bush pointed out ad nauseum) he can still make the case that the situation is fucked up without really losing too much face, that an international effort is needed to unfuck it, and that it is in other countries' best interests to do so to regain some stability in the Mideast.

Looking beyond Iraq to the global war on terror, I think the same principle applies. Bush has destroyed the "we're all in this together" vibe that was going on in the world following 9/11 and pushed away countries who could be strong allies in gathering and sharing information and rounding up terrorists wherever they may be. As long as Bush is in office, the anti-Bush, anti-American feeling around the world will not help our efforts in this regard.

Can Kerry actually bring back global respectability to the USA and restore old alliances? I honestly don't know -- but I am certain that Bush cannot.

[neur0t0xin64]

Re: VP Debate

Showing up for a breakfast where no votes are cast is clearly no excuse to miss 70% of potential votes. Frankly i'm glad he and Kerry don't show up to vote b/c Kerry = 1st and Edwards = 3rd for most liberal senators decided by a nonpartisan group! Another attempt by liberals to catch Cheney in a "lie" and overseeing the LOGIC!

get real, u guys are going to lose....the american people cant be fooled that easily

Jesus, obviously when the two have been running for president, they're going to be missing a lot of votes. What is Cheney's excuse for only showing up twice to lead the Senate? And if you look at the voting record, they've always participated in votes that are close.

Furthermore, the crap about "most liberal senator" is total and utter BULLSHIT. If you ask me, neither of them are liberal enough, and after listening to Edwards last night go on about "gay marriage" you are a total and complete idiot if you think he is a liberal.

Instead of repeating, tired, incorrect Republican talking points, why don't you try doing a little research and find things out for yourself. You can start with this site right here: http://mostliberalsenator.blogspot.com/

Even if the 70% absent voting record was for the last 6 months, he should still be TRYING to do his job...that is cast votes and attend committee meetings for his state. Becoming a senator isn't a free ticket to waste taxpayer money on a political campaign. Again, all the liberals will do is oversee the LOGIC. Why u guys can't accept facts for what they are is beyond me. Its time to get off the sinking ship and forget the democratic party. During the 90s, it wasn't very good to be a republican if u wanted the presidency...This decade will continue to belong to the republicans, until the democrats stop trying to scare/b.s. their way into the presidency.

BTW...Edwards isn't stupid. He knows that 1% of Americans would bother to vote on gay marriage, and lots more than that will vote against it. To side with gay marriage is political suicide.

I will concede that however they decide "most liberal" and "most conservative" is rather subjective...so i'll let it go....But maybe if the guys showed up a bit more to vote we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Also, overwhelming support to authorize going to war is HARDLY a close vote! They should've skipped out and gone windsurfing or gotten a fake tan.

In today's world: Liberals are Booers :cry: , Conservatives are Doers

[LobsterClan]

Re: VP Debate

Why u guys can't accept facts for what they are is beyond me. Its time to get off the sinking ship and forget the democratic party. During the 90s, it wasn't very good to be a republican if u wanted the presidency...This decade will continue to belong to the republicans, until the democrats stop trying to scare/b.s. their way into the presidency.

Well guess what, buddy? According to the latest poll, it is in fact the Democrats with the lead, 50-46. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...sident_ap_poll

Really ridiculous how an incumbent, lame duck president with an under 50 approval rating is somehow considered the favorite, despite history showing those types of presidents always lose.


As for your bs and lying, that is all the Republican party does. I mentioned several places where Cheney was guilty of that exact sentiment, and no one has yet tried to refute those facts. I'd love to see you try and spin some of the bullshit he puked up, like the way he claimed never mentioning a link between Iraq and al Qaeda.

[LobsterClan]

Re: VP Debate

BTW...Edwards isn't stupid. He knows that 1% of Americans would bother to vote on gay marriage, and lots more than that will vote against it. To side with gay marriage is political suicide.

Since you obviously weren't paying any attention-- Cheney actually believes the matter of gay marriage should be left up to the states.

Bigotry of any kind is immoral, and wrong.

[toasty]

Re: VP Debate

This decade will continue to belong to the republicans, until the democrats stop trying to scare/b.s. their way into the presidency.

You've got to be kidding me. The republican platform this election cycle is "Scare ya and sell ya insurance" -- "the terrorists are coming, but we'll keep you safe." The whole platform is based upon fear.

You may think the democratic ticket is based upon BS, and that's your prerogative to think that, but to suggest that the dems are running on scare tactics is to be blind to what your own party is doing...

[asdf_admin]

i think you are all full of shit with propaganda and your who-ha-ho-ha's.

I am still waiting for a REAL president not these fucking opposite scums.

Your Welcome.

[asdf_admin]

i think you are all full of shit with propaganda and your who-ha-ho-ha's.

I am still waiting for a REAL president not these fucking opposite scums.

Your Welcome.

[asdf_admin]

i think you are all full of shit with propaganda and your who-ha-ho-ha's.

I am still waiting for a REAL president not these fucking opposite scums.

Your Welcome.

[asdf_admin]

bah.

[asdf_admin]

i think you are all full of shit with propaganda and your who-ha-ho-ha's.

I am still waiting for a REAL president not these fucking opposite scums.

Your Welcome.

[PhAntoM MeNaCe]

Mixu & BSully, the truth is that when George Soros heard Cheney say the wrong site, he being the billionaire that he is immediately went and bought that domain name, which then forwarded the browser onto Soros's own anti-bush site. I agree the irony of how it all happened is comical. But for Soros to go and buy that site immediately after shows the pervasive politics the democrats are playing here, very typical.

Toasty, so the thing Kerry brings to the table more than Bush is 'the potential to bring other countries into the fold.' Can you please tell me what countries your talking about??? And also what planet your from, because it cant be earth. Hmm your saying Bush has burned so many bridges he can't 'ask' for help??? Toasty let me remind you that there are STILL 30 different countries involved in the rebuilding process of Iraq, my prediction is after Bush is reelected others will continue to join, such as Egypt and Pakistan, who have just had a suicide bomber kill many of their citizens, where Al-Queda claimed responsibility.
Tell me this please, how can John Kerry go to any country in the world and ask for help when he himself has said on record hundreds of times atleast, that it is the 'WRONG WAR WRONG PLACE WRONG TIME' Does that make any sense to you at all? WRONG WAR=EVERYONE COME HELP PUT YOUR SOLDIERS IN HARMS WAY???????!!???? WTF kind of critical thinking skills is that TOASTY?? You talk about GLOBAL RESPECTABILITY? HAHAHAHAHAH respected by who? GERMANY who YOU just mentioned. They are our secret enemy along with France, who the fuck cares what they think of us!!!! We do billions of dollars in commerce with them, fine, but do you think they give a shit about us politically? They're always going to hate us, not because of BUSH, not because of KERRY, but for more deep rooted reasons. France and Germany have BOTH OFFICIALLY said, 'NO MATTER WHAT, WE ARE NOT SENDING TROOPS' why? Because they lack any type of BALLS to stand up for freedom and democracy, and they're more worried that their involvement in OIL FOR FOOD, which will surface very shortly in my opinion, will be brought to light. Both were PALS with SADDAM and IRAQ'S OIL!!
Kerry has undermined every country currently involved in the rebuilding process, has disrespected the new president ALAWI, disrespected the loss of life by the Iraqiis, and every other country that is contributing in the coalition. YOU, toasty, THINK that is whats going to open the doors for the world to come and help the US, with that kind of attitude. Please come out of your hypnosis.