Badr v Sadr

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  • toasty
    Sir Toastiness
    • Jun 2004
    • 6585

    Badr v Sadr

    The recent violence in Iraq has highlighted a change in the nature of the problem over there that really hasn't gotten a lot of attenton -- at least a change from when the Sunni insurgency was the primary threat. As I understand it, the primary fighting that is going on right now is actually between two Shia groups, Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade (on behalf of the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council), and the Sunnis are more or less out of the equation, by virtue of deals cut with Shia militias.

    Here's the thing, though -- while this Shia-Sunni civil war has morphed into a civil war between opposing Shia sects, we've been ramping up the rhetoric against Iran. al-Sadr's historical ties to radical Shias in Iran are on the one hand pretty well-documented, but current ties to Iran are much more sketchy. Nevertheless, when allegations are made about Iran funding and supporting anti-US forces in Iraq, they are almost invariably referring to the Mahdi Army.

    On the other hand, the "Iraqi military," and the force that protects Iraq's national interests is actually one and the same with the Badr Brigade -- an organization that was actually formed by the Iranian government and which was based in Iran for 2 decades prior to the US ousting Saddam. It actually fought alongside Iran in the Iran-Iraq war. Following Saddam's ouster, the Badr Brigade openly streamed into Iraq from Iran and the US engaged them as an ally because of their opposition to Saddam's Baathist regime, thinking they would be helpful against Sunni insurgents. This is now the organization that we arm, fund, and train, and that we've charged with keeping the peace.

    The part I'm having trouble reconciling is that it would seem that Iranian interests and US interests aren't really opposed, at least as it pertains to Iraq, and we're openly supporting the Iranian Badr Brigade in its attempt to control Iraq. Meanwhile, we're raising hell about how bad Iran is and how Iranian influence in Iraq is something that is grounds for ramping up pressure on Iran. The Badr organization, however, is an ally of Ahmadinejad as I understand it.

    I recognize that politics makes for strange bedfellows and all that jazz, but this just seems like madness to me.

    WTF? Anyone able to she any light on this?
  • Shpira
    Angry Boy Child
    • Oct 2006
    • 4969

    #2
    Re: Badr v Sadr

    Its called "US Foreign Policy".
    Same old same old...
    The Idiots ARE Winning.


    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."
    Mark Twain

    SOBRIETY MIX

    Comment

    • Jenks
      I'm kind of a big deal.
      • Jun 2004
      • 10250

      #3
      Re: Badr v Sadr

      that's so deep shpira.

      Comment

      • thesightless
        Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
        • Jun 2004
        • 13567

        #4
        Re: Badr v Sadr

        james, you are educated, intelligent and fairly logical (outside of what party you plan on voting for.), what, on god's green earth, makes you think anything in the middle east makes sense in any particular way ?

        here is a statement, that when backed by historical and empirical evidence, will make sense.

        "the middle east, throughout history, has been filled with every vile animalistic element of nearly every ethnicity, from marauding moors, to crazy asains, to crusading catholics, to kamakazi muslims, and probably will never be civil ever again"

        there, there is a common sense statement.
        your life is an occasion, rise to it.

        Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
        download that. deep shit listed there

        my dick is its own superhero.

        Comment

        • 88Mariner
          My dick is smaller
          • Nov 2006
          • 7128

          #5
          Re: Badr v Sadr

          The part I'm having trouble reconciling is that it would seem that Iranian interests and US interests aren't really opposed, at least as it pertains to Iraq, and we're openly supporting the Iranian Badr Brigade in its attempt to control Iraq. Meanwhile, we're raising hell about how bad Iran is and how Iranian influence in Iraq is something that is grounds for ramping up pressure on Iran.
          "WE" aren't raising hell about Iran and constructively implicating them in our defeat in Iraq. The only persons doing this right now is.....er......McShame. And not only has he done it once (and been corrected on the spot by Lieberman, no less), but he's done it multiple times: this goes to show that the original was not a mistake, and nor were the subsequent statements. It's intentional, deliberate, and insane.

          For McCain, there is no war he doesn't like. It matters little to consider all the costs involved. And yet, he's pushing...dare i pull this word out of the sockdrawer.....BRINKSMANSHIP with the Middle East. Except it is a purely illusory brinksmanship where we, and by we I mean whoever is in political power, make up the facts about the other side and let the American people digest it like a Ruth Chris Petit Filet done MedRare: so damn satisfying you're going to want another one!

          I wouldn't put it past anyone that there are enough procreating idiots in this country that could actually make a war in Iraq happen by blindly following whatever the government tells us.
          you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

          it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

          Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

          ----PEACE-----

          Comment

          • cosmo
            Gold Gabber
            • Jun 2004
            • 583

            #6
            Re: Badr v Sadr

            Comment

            • runningman
              Playa I'm a Sooth Saya
              • Jun 2004
              • 5995

              #7
              Re: Badr v Sadr

              this is a fight being used as a precursor to go into Iran plain and simple..

              Comment

              • cosmo
                Gold Gabber
                • Jun 2004
                • 583

                #8
                Re: Badr v Sadr

                Originally posted by runningman
                this is a fight being used as a precursor to go into Iran plain and simple..

                If Iran keeps meddling into Iraqi affairs by funding militants inside of Iraq that are shooting rockets and planting road-side bombs, then yea, it's definently something to look into. The Iranian regime is in a proxy war with us.

                Comment

                • 88Mariner
                  My dick is smaller
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 7128

                  #9
                  Re: Badr v Sadr

                  ^ proof?

                  oh right. hannity and mccain.
                  you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                  it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                  Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                  ----PEACE-----

                  Comment

                  • CactusBeats
                    Addiction started
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 490

                    #10
                    Re: Badr v Sadr

                    Originally posted by cosmo
                    The Iranian regime is in a proxy war with us.
                    You can be sure, if that is the conclusion that Cheney & Bush wish to reach, they will work hard to manufacture the intelligence to support it. Iran's interests don't include an unstable Iraq as a failed state. Iran's interests do include a stable Shiite regime to work along-side as an ally (something the US would also like). WE destabalized the region, not Iran, not Iraq. The USA needs to take responsibility for its part here, but that will never happen.

                    So when toasty says this "The part I'm having trouble reconciling is that it would seem that Iranian interests and US interests aren't really opposed," I tend to agree that our interests aren't opposed. Iran's supposed meddling in Iraq, which probably does exist at a low-degree, is just a case of saber-rattling saying, "Yes, we are going nuclear and we are bold enough to fcuk with you [in Iraq - IED's etc.] so don't fcuk with us [do anything to mess with our nuclear program]" This is far from being a proxy-war. WE are the occupying intruder in a neighboring country's affairs. If we would leave, who would the Iranian funded Iraqis fight? The Sunnis? Iraqi Sunnis aren't threatening Iran's nuclear program. What Iran is doing is the same posturing that Saddam Hussein was doing in regard to WMD's before this war. Saddam wanted others (Iran in particular) to believe he had them because he was terrified of being attacked by Iran because of the weak condition of his military (after years of sanctions, defeat in Gulf War I and the devastating Iran-Iraq War of the 1980's). So if the US is stupid enough to take the bait AGAIN we deserve whatever completely f'd up results would happen there.

                    The Bush admin has proven over and over that it is a pushover for any rag-tag band of manipulating terrorists. That is what happens when zero-tolerance policies are implemented. But when your leader can only formulate policy from a black and white stance in a world full of gray, this is what we all get.
                    I like your Christ.
                    I do not like your Christians.
                    Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

                    Mahatma Gandhi

                    Comment

                    • toasty
                      Sir Toastiness
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 6585

                      #11
                      Re: Badr v Sadr

                      Originally posted by cosmo
                      Originally posted by runningman
                      this is a fight being used as a precursor to go into Iran plain and simple..
                      If Iran keeps meddling into Iraqi affairs by funding militants inside of Iraq that are shooting rockets and planting road-side bombs, then yea, it's definently something to look into. The Iranian regime is in a proxy war with us.
                      I think you're both missing the point. If you believe the Bush administration, Iran is funding, arming, and training the Mahdi Army. This may well be the case to a small extent, but the evidence of it is tenuous.

                      On the other hand, the Badr Corps -- who we are arming and training and who make up the Iraqi army -- is an Iranian organization (that's a bit of an over generalization, but it will suffice for the purposes of argument) -- and that is not in dispute. The point is, if you listen to the Bush admin, you would be led to believe that the Iraqi army is a group of Iraqi nationalists who have banded together and are fighting Iranian forces led by al-Sadr. That's simply not accurate. The group with whom we have aligned ourselves is also Iranian in origin, so it is almost as if Iraq has become a battleground for a power struggle between two Iranian Shia groups.

                      On the one hand, we're complaining about Iranian involvement, on the other, we're actively engaging the Badr Corps to keep the peace.

                      So is Iran supporting two warring groups? It's hard to see how having an unstable Iraq would serve Iran's interests.

                      It's puzzling, and I don't claim to have any of the answers. It's just been fairly recently that the press has dug into exactly whom is fighting whom in Iraq, though, and if nothing else, that reporting raises a lot of questions about where Iran really fits into the puzzle -- just saying that "Iran is funding Iraqi militants" becomes nonsense without more information.

                      Comment

                      • Jenks
                        I'm kind of a big deal.
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 10250

                        #12
                        Re: Badr v Sadr

                        Pretty good summary here:

                        The Iran Iraq Conflict: An In Depth Look

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