Ambien

[threehills]

Re: Ambien

These are a few excerpts from a book called The Antidepressant Fact Book written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it here, and check the references to all of the journals he mentions. Its much easier to read something like this than it is some of the medical journals themselves, cause unless you've got a neuroscience degree, they tend to read like greek...

I don't want to sound all preachy but...

So, I looked at one of Dr. Berger's peer reviewed papers. http://breggin.com/suicidalityviolen...eggin.2003.pdf I did this because, honestly, you can't rely on what is written in a book who's target audience is mainstream and is designed to generate a profit.

So, I think his arguement is not necessarily that SSRIs dont work, but rather, there can be dangerous side effects associated with them. People taking these drugs need to be monitored for changes in behavior. Which is a sound point to make.

Nowhere did I see him say however that these drugs are not effective and there use should be abolished.

I also want to point out that most of his references are case reports. Case reports are fine for reporting occurences of an event, but they cannot be used to gain insight into causality or relationships between variables. This insight can really only be gained from double blind controlled studies. In his list of 60 odd references I only saw reference to one double blind study...

Muijen et al. [60] conducted a six-week double-blind study comparing fluoxetine (Prozac), mianserin, andplacebo with 26, 27, and 28 starters respectively, and 14, 14, and 16 finishers respectively. Two of the fluoxetine patients “took an overdose within two weeks of starting the study, and in both cases this was
related to a deteriorating clinical state that necessitated hospitalization” (p. 386). None of the patientsin the other drug group or the placebo group suffered from this decline and suicidality.

So, the fact that 2 out of 44 subjects took an over dose seems alarming. Sure. But just as alarming should be the fact that half the subjects dropped out of the study before completion. What does this say about the subject population? Further and more importantly, Berger only cites what he finds useful to his arguement. Elsewhere in that very same article...

...Suicidal feelings were reduced to a greater degree on fluoxetine than on mianserin and placebo at weeks 6 and 7...

..Significantly more patients on fluoxetine improved than patients on placebo...

So you are right, these books like Dr. Berger's are much easier to read, but they can often be manipulative and misleading. They have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

Evidence for Permanent Damage and Dysfunction from SSRIs

In the Wergerer study, the increased transporter density persisted for at least ninety days into the adulthood of the rats. Furthermore, theese seemingly permanent abnormalities were found in the most highly devloped portion of the brain - the frontal lobes.

...

It is especially ominous, therefore that young animals develop permanent changes in the frontal lobes of their brains after even brief exposure to Prozac. Werger and her colleauges are to be commended for correctly pointing out the danger of giving SSRIs to children. It also indicates a potential danger to adults, since the brain retains its reactivity to drugs as long as it is alive.

....

Another recent study in Brain Research has found that four days of high doses of Prozac and Zolofot, as well as other serotonin-stimulating drugs, cause marked changes in brain cells, including bodies of the cells and projections called axons. Prozac most commonly produced "large swelling" in the body of neurons. Zoloft produced "swollen and truncated" axons and in some cases made the neurons "corkscrew" in shape. the study voices concern about whether these injured cells could survive, but leaves the question unanswered. The authors suggest this damage could indicate the long term effect of chronic SSRI usage.

These are a few excerpts from a book called The Antidepressant Fact Book written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it here, and check the references to all of the journals he mentions. Its much easier to read something like this than it is some of the medical journals themselves, cause unless you've got a neuroscience degree, they tend to read like greek...

[sakio pod]

Re: Ambien

ambien didn't do shit for me i'm on 2mg xanax to sleep

[lilsensa]

Re: Ambien

I'd be interested too, dude.

[threehills]

Re: Ambien

happy to post more later. i've been doing research on this for years, scientific and anecdotal.

Didn't mean to sound like as ass slamming the wikipedia reference. If you do have stuff, I would be interesetd in reading it.

[jcole]

Re: Ambien

what time is it here in saudi, shit i can use some ambien...

[Garrick]

Re: Ambien

thats happened to me a couple times taking ambien... i have a mess in my apartment and have no idea why the next day. especially in the kitchen! i just assumed i blanked out though... no intruders

[DJJEFFJONES]

Re: Ambien

Oh and sorry to repeat others on this topic...

[Steve Graham]

Re: Ambien

yeah, when you pull that one sentence out, it is pretty funny

[DJJEFFJONES]

Re: Ambien

Also, a week ago, I thought someone broke into my house and ate all my strawberries..

Not to make light of the blackouts... but damn that is hilaroius!!!

I'm fucking rollin over here!

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

wikipedia is not evidence. Evidence is published in scientific peer reviewed journals.

happy to post more later. i've been doing research on this for years, scientific and anecdotal.

[|Thrax|]

Re: Ambien

some friends were spinning some tunes at my pad on cdj's once..

I had a beer, a half bar of xanax and a bowl...
sleepwalk to 7-11 grabbed a spicy big bite, ate it on the way back to my house...

passed out on the couch listening to them play music, woke up at 3am on the couch, everyone was gone.

I wasnt hungry though.

I didnt remember going to the corner store, except I had the receipt in my pocket.

[lilsensa]

Re: Ambien

forgetting you ate strawberries is better than waking up a few miles from your house in your pj's

Being paranoid that someone has been, or still might be in your house is kinda weird..I'm kind of paranoid as it is..That waas just bad..Every noise I heard, every shadow I saw behind the shower curtain just freaked me out..Then I thought about how silly it was.

[Steve Graham]

Re: Ambien

forgetting you ate strawberries is better than waking up a few miles from your house in your pj's

[lilsensa]

Re: Ambien

^^I "knew" that I didn't eat them..But then I thought about it for a couple of days and tried really hard to remember..I have the idea in my head that I probably ate them in my sleep, and that is more likely than someone coming into my house to eat them. LOL

The part about not knowing what I did the night before is a little strange...Kinda like waking up and wondering if you had sex with the slut in bed next to you after a drunken night.