Ambien

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

Evidence for Permanent Damage and Dysfunction from SSRIs

In the Wergerer study, the increased transporter density persisted for at least ninety days into the adulthood of the rats. Furthermore, theese seemingly permanent abnormalities were found in the most highly devloped portion of the brain - the frontal lobes.

...

It is especially ominous, therefore that young animals develop permanent changes in the frontal lobes of their brains after even brief exposure to Prozac. Werger and her colleauges are to be commended for correctly pointing out the danger of giving SSRIs to children. It also indicates a potential danger to adults, since the brain retains its reactivity to drugs as long as it is alive.

....

Another recent study in Brain Research has found that four days of high doses of Prozac and Zolofot, as well as other serotonin-stimulating drugs, cause marked changes in brain cells, including bodies of the cells and projections called axons. Prozac most commonly produced "large swelling" in the body of neurons. Zoloft produced "swollen and truncated" axons and in some cases made the neurons "corkscrew" in shape. the study voices concern about whether these injured cells could survive, but leaves the question unanswered. The authors suggest this damage could indicate the long term effect of chronic SSRI usage.

These are a few excerpts from a book called The Antidepressant Fact Book written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it here, and check the references to all of the journals he mentions. Its much easier to read something like this than it is some of the medical journals themselves, cause unless you've got a neuroscience degree, they tend to read like greek...

[threehills]

Re: Ambien

These are a few excerpts from a book called The Antidepressant Fact Book written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it here, and check the references to all of the journals he mentions. Its much easier to read something like this than it is some of the medical journals themselves, cause unless you've got a neuroscience degree, they tend to read like greek...

I don't want to sound all preachy but...

So, I looked at one of Dr. Berger's peer reviewed papers. http://breggin.com/suicidalityviolen...eggin.2003.pdf I did this because, honestly, you can't rely on what is written in a book who's target audience is mainstream and is designed to generate a profit.

So, I think his arguement is not necessarily that SSRIs dont work, but rather, there can be dangerous side effects associated with them. People taking these drugs need to be monitored for changes in behavior. Which is a sound point to make.

Nowhere did I see him say however that these drugs are not effective and there use should be abolished.

I also want to point out that most of his references are case reports. Case reports are fine for reporting occurences of an event, but they cannot be used to gain insight into causality or relationships between variables. This insight can really only be gained from double blind controlled studies. In his list of 60 odd references I only saw reference to one double blind study...

Muijen et al. [60] conducted a six-week double-blind study comparing fluoxetine (Prozac), mianserin, andplacebo with 26, 27, and 28 starters respectively, and 14, 14, and 16 finishers respectively. Two of the fluoxetine patients “took an overdose within two weeks of starting the study, and in both cases this was
related to a deteriorating clinical state that necessitated hospitalization” (p. 386). None of the patientsin the other drug group or the placebo group suffered from this decline and suicidality.

So, the fact that 2 out of 44 subjects took an over dose seems alarming. Sure. But just as alarming should be the fact that half the subjects dropped out of the study before completion. What does this say about the subject population? Further and more importantly, Berger only cites what he finds useful to his arguement. Elsewhere in that very same article...

...Suicidal feelings were reduced to a greater degree on fluoxetine than on mianserin and placebo at weeks 6 and 7...

..Significantly more patients on fluoxetine improved than patients on placebo...

So you are right, these books like Dr. Berger's are much easier to read, but they can often be manipulative and misleading. They have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

yep, totally agree. just read the sources in his end notes.

[Huggie Smiles]

Re: Ambien

These are a few excerpts from a book called The Antidepressant Fact Book written by Dr. Peter Breggin. You can read more of it here, ..

from that link............Known as "the Ralph Nader of psychiatry," Dr. Peter Breggin....

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

his sources aren't fake though...just an easy reference to alot of good studies. who cares if the guy is slanted. read the research for yourself.

you can't honestly think prescribing SSRIs for mild anxiety is rational...

[Huggie Smiles]

Re: Ambien

So, I think his arguement is not necessarily that SSRIs dont work, but rather, there can be dangerous side effects associated with them. People taking these drugs need to be monitored for changes in behavior. Which is a sound point to make.

Nowhere did I see him say however that these drugs are not effective and there use should be abolished.

.

i think we should all just agree to this point and move back to the vortex

[e808]

Re: Ambien

I'm sold. Is this available over the counter?

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

I'm sold. Is this available over the counter?

no, presciption only.

[DIDI]

Re: Ambien

This is really disturbing! This drug is called stilnox here and has been responsible for deaths, both accidently while sleepwalking and apparently, particularly in adolescent suicides. Even though it is not recommended for kids it is being prescribed. Get back to your doctor as soon as possible and find an alternative!!! This was one of the drugs found in Heath Ledger's body. Extremely dangerous if taken with anything else.!!!! They are having to rewrite labelling!!

Re natural remedies I actually take 5htp. It works incredibly well for me. If you are getting a good result from melatonin Feather, it should work well for you! This is where I get it. http://cgi.ebay.com/5-HTP-Griffonia-...QQcmdZViewItem

They tell you this but just to reiterate,

DO NOT TAKE WITH OTHER PRESCRIBED MEDICATION!!

Day for Night Thank you!!

Btw It's not about abolishing any drug!! I'ts about getting the right ones that work for you !! People have enormous differences in this area. I have two friends that are very happy on a drug that sent me into an unbelievable downward spiral. Communicate well with your doctor! It is very important!

[feather]

Re: Ambien

Oh yeah I used to take 5htp back in the day They gave me some vivid epic dreams.

[Steve Graham]

Re: Ambien

^^^ thats more natural tho isnt it? more of a mood stabiliser type thing

[day_for_night]

Re: Ambien

5htp is the precursor to serotonin, which is what controls your mood and sleep patterns. serotonin is then converted in to melotonin, which assists in you being able to fall asleep.

yes its natural. you can get sources of tryptophan from things like bananas and turkey, which is then converted into 5htp (an intermediate step between tryptophan and serotonin)

the chain goes

tryptophan -> 5htp ->serotonin -> melatonin

[feather]

Re: Ambien

Oh yeah I know all about serotonin But didn't know serotonin converts to melatonin ... my interest stops at the happy vibes transmitter

[Dhar_2]

Re: Ambien

Jesus how many of u lot take shit to sleep???

i thought i was wired!!

[feather]

Re: Ambien

I'd give it all up for a spliff to knock myself out ... but no go over here.