support the troops

[DIDI]

Re: support the troops

I thought this thread was about a personal loss. If it was another thread I would agree totally with Chunky.

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

I understand what you're saying huggies, totally. The problem is, both adversaries we are involved with refuse to recognize the Geneva convention. That makesit impossible to succeed following the convention to the t. I am currently deployed to Afghanistan,and I want to be treated in the ways set forth by the convention, but I know that if i was to get captured, theres no way that would happen. These extremist don't give a shit. It sux, but what are you going to do. Wars aren't won with sympathy unfortunately.

well the extremists aren't nationalities. nor could you expect the ku klux klan to abide by the geneva convention. it's for conventional warfare waged by nations, not small factions.

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

let's also not forget the thousands of soldiers who have committed suicide upon returning from iraq. the numbers are absolutely staggering to think about...

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

To Shpira: I am not basing this on the "TV" that you're watching. I am basing this on what i have seen myself. I don't agree with the Iraq War necessarily, I was more stating on war in general. But I have had friends killed in both wars. it sux. if you think you can make snese with these people then keep living in your dream world. The coalition have been attempting to train the iraqis to take care of themselves, but half the time the people don't care or are too lazy. So once again unless you have been there your self, you wouldn't know.

To Mariner: I understand what the Geneva convention is for.. But I have no sympathy for these radicals who not only try to kill us, but there own people as well. Its like its 500 years ago out here in afghanistan, because these radicals have ran this place for so long. The taliban must be irradicated if this country ie to progress. The US and Nato have spent shitloads of money demining this place and building schools and training people. So I myself have seriously tuned out the wining about the US.

And back on topic with the meaning of this thread. yeah the loss is disheartening. I get waken up in the middle of the night to see a casket with a flag draped over it, being driven through the streets on a Hummer. ( not always American either) Not something I really enjoy. trust me. The ones that have been lost will never be forgotten. I pray for their families. and with the comment about suicide, I've seen that too. A lot of it has to do with how these soldier's command treats them out here. Its's absurd really. especially because they are out here for 15 months. I would defintiely go insane.

[shosh]

Re: support the troops

To Shpira: I am not basing this on the "TV" that you're watching. I am basing this on what i have seen myself. I don't agree with the Iraq War necessarily, I was more stating on war in general. But I have had friends killed in both wars. it sux. if you think you can make snese with these people then keep living in your dream world. The coalition have been attempting to train the iraqis to take care of themselves, but half the time the people don't care or are too lazy. So once again unless you have been there your self, you wouldn't know.

To Mariner: I understand what the Geneva convention is for.. But I have no sympathy for these radicals who not only try to kill us, but there own people as well. Its like its 500 years ago out here in afghanistan, because these radicals have ran this place for so long. The taliban must be irradicated if this country ie to progress. The US and Nato have spent shitloads of money demining this place and building schools and training people. So I myself have seriously tuned out the wining about the US.

And back on topic with the meaning of this thread. yeah the loss is disheartening. I get waken up in the middle of the night to see a casket with a flag draped over it, being driven through the streets on a Hummer. ( not always American either) Not something I really enjoy. trust me. The ones that have been lost will never be forgotten. I pray for their families. and with the comment about suicide, I've seen that too. A lot of it has to do with how these soldier's command treats them out here. Its's absurd really. especially because they are out here for 15 months. I would defintiely go insane.

props to you my man. lets get this thread back on track... supporting and respecting our country's soldiers. just watched flag of our fathers and made me realize again the sacrifice some men make. makes me feel like the biggest pussy

[88Mariner]

Re: support the troops

well, of course they're trying to kill. If the Chinese Government landed a legion of troops and set up a bases in the heart of Tampa, don't you think the backwater rednecks would create a counter-insurgency against those forces? It's not about sympathy, but about principle. The geneva convention would also not apply to the backyard warriors of tampa.

The taliban surely needs to be eliminated to help afghanistan make progress, but is that what we're there for ultimately? To create a democratic government? What was once a satelite russian state now becomes a satelite american state. Interesting.


I think i may be able to boil down the posts to a terse line: it's disheartening to see any person killed, whether it be american, afghan, british, military or civilian, simply because one government hates another government or faction just enough that it must use, without question, force, without reason. Wars are almost always waged because governments want the wars, not because the people will it to be so.

[Shpira]

Re: support the troops

To begin with I really don't watch TV at all...i wouldn't own one if it weren't for the fact that my dad stops by once in a while and wants to watch the news.
Secondly not to disrespect anyone in particular,but I am just sharing my opinion, going to war is really really REALLY stupid. the only viable reason i would ever go to war would be self defense of me and my family or friends...as for patriotism etc...fuck that shit.
On the other hand I can understand if a under privileged person goes to war because he or she has no choice or a person who loves killing/fighting goes...but anyone with a choice should have their head examined for going to war.
I don't see anything noble or admirable about being paid peanuts to risk your life for someones election campaign or someones profits...whatever the reason.
Its not about having or not having the balls...I have been in a fair amount of tough situations in my life to know what I would and what I wouldn't be able to handle so I don't see the point of fighting.
Maybe you can explain to me why you joined?

p.s. I am not trying to insult you or anything.

[Shpira]

Re: support the troops

well, of course they're trying to kill. If the Chinese Government landed a legion of troops and set up a bases in the heart of Tampa, don't you think the backwater rednecks would create a counter-insurgency against those forces? It's not about sympathy, but about principle. The geneva convention would also not apply to the backyard warriors of tampa.

The taliban surely needs to be eliminated to help afghanistan make progress, but is that what we're there for ultimately? To create a democratic government? What was once a satelite russian state now becomes a satelite american state. Interesting.


I think i may be able to boil down the posts to a terse line: it's disheartening to see any person killed, whether it be american, afghan, british, military or civilian, simply because one government hates another government or faction just enough that it must use, without question, force, without reason. .

agree 100%

although Afghanistan was never really a satellite Russian state

[threehills]

Re: support the troops

....simply because one government hates another government or faction just enough that it must use, without question, force, without reason.

Thats bumpersticker worthy material right there!

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

Trust me I don't get offended, especially by people I have never met. First off, I am third generation Air force like mentioned before. I have always known a lot about the military. It has given my family a lot. And if you seriously think everyone in the military is guarding gates or convoying to go kill then you need YOUR head examined. I have received better training and experience in my career field( which happens to be broadcast technology/engineering) then most do on the outside. And guess what, I didn't have to pay shit. Plus I get %100 college tuition while i am in and the GI bill when I get out. Plus if you're into universal health care thats what the military is all about.( which I am not the biggest fan really. I still can't figur out why people think its the way to go but whatever GO Socialism) Oh yeah and as crazy as it sounds, I love my damn country!! Andi am not a fool I realize that Afghanistan is extremely strategic, but a country like the US would be stupid to not take advantage of it. hell its been an object of strategy since before Alexander the Great's time. Plus if you ever get a chance to see afghanistan yourself you would know how much the US and coalition are doing for this country.A lot of it is cleaning up what the Russiand left here.

Thats why.

To begin with I really don't watch TV at all...i wouldn't own one if it weren't for the fact that my dad stops by once in a while and wants to watch the news.
Secondly not to disrespect anyone in particular,but I am just sharing my opinion, going to war is really really REALLY stupid. the only viable reason i would ever go to war would be self defense of me and my family or friends...as for patriotism etc...fuck that shit.
On the other hand I can understand if a under privileged person goes to war because he or she has no choice or a person who loves killing/fighting goes...but anyone with a choice should have their head examined for going to war.
I don't see anything noble or admirable about being paid peanuts to risk your life for someones election campaign or someones profits...whatever the reason.
Its not about having or not having the balls...I have been in a fair amount of tough situations in my life to know what I would and what I wouldn't be able to handle so I don't see the point of fighting.
Maybe you can explain to me why you joined?

p.s. I am not trying to insult you or anything.

[chunky]

Re: support the troops

Oh yeah and as crazy as it sounds, I love my damn country!! Andi am not a fool I realize that Afghanistan is extremely strategic, but a country like the US would be stupid to not take advantage of it. hell its been an object of strategy since before Alexander the Great's time.

Isn't that like saying Saddam Hussein would of been stupid not to take control of Iraq in the fist place because the opportunity was there. And just because its been an object of strategy since before Alexander the Great's time doesnt make it acceptable. Genocide, Tyranny Exploitation & Crime aren't anymore acceptable just because they have gone on for Thousands of years. Surley at some point we have to learn from the mistakes of the past and move on. I'm glad you love your country, Because the current UK government did some great things for their people. And then completely lost all their integrity with the war. I'm ashamed of my country.

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

Isn't that like saying Saddam Hussein would of been stupid not to take control of Iraq in the fist place because the opportunity was there. And just because its been an object of strategy since before Alexander the Great's time doesnt make it acceptable. Genocide, Tyranny Exploitation & Crime aren't anymore acceptable just because they have gone on for Thousands of years. Surley at some point we have to learn from the mistakes of the past and move on. I'm glad you love your country, Because the current UK government did some great things for their people. And then completely lost all their integrity with the war. I'm ashamed of my country.

Last tiem I checked there wasn't a genocide being commited by the coalition here in Afghanistan. As a mater of fact i can look right out of my front door and see aschool being built for the Afghan kids by the coalition. I am sorry to hear that you are ashamed of your country. the US is definitely far from perfect but does a lot more good than it is given credit for. and whenit comes to the strategic advantage. If you have countrie with known aggressive pasts that aren't on that great of terms with your country, wouldn't you like to be ready in case they decide to pounce. It's called a deterent, thats how things work.

[hambino21]

Re: support the troops

When it comes to the Soldier, Airman, Sailor, and Marine, the least you can do is to not question why they do what they do. And don't insult them by saying that they must be poor, uneducated, or crazy for serving their country. Thats just rediculous! It is something they decided to do. And yes some were talked into it and it might not have been the best idea for them, but they are the ones that have to deal with this decision, not you. Plus when you feel like protesting certain decisions, disagreeing with officials outloud, booming whatever music you want riding around in your ride, staying up all night for a 10 hr Danny Howells show, eating at a twenty four hour restaraunt, etc, etc, just remember that person you think is poor, crazy, ignorant etc, is out on a patrol somewhere in BFE in full battle rattle so you can do all those things mentioned above with out having to think twice. On top of that , that poor, ignorant crazy person, vollunteered for their position so you don't have to do it.

[shosh]

Re: support the troops

When it comes to the Soldier, Airman, Sailor, and Marine, the least you can do is to not question why they do what they do. And don't insult them by saying that they must be poor, uneducated, or crazy for serving their country. Thats just rediculous! It is something they decided to do. And yes some were talked into it and it might not have been the best idea for them, but they are the ones that have to deal with this decision, not you. Plus when you feel like protesting certain decisions, disagreeing with officials outloud, booming whatever music you want riding around in your ride, staying up all night for a 10 hr Danny Howells show, eating at a twenty four hour restaraunt, etc, etc, just remember that person you think is poor, crazy, ignorant etc, is out on a patrol somewhere in BFE in full battle rattle so you can do all those things mentioned above with out having to think twice. On top of that , that poor, ignorant crazy person, vollunteered for their position so you don't have to do it.

QFT

[chunky]

Re: support the troops

Last tiem I checked there wasn't a genocide being commited by the coalition here in Afghanistan. As a mater of fact i can look right out of my front door and see aschool being built for the Afghan kids by the coalition. I am sorry to hear that you are ashamed of your country. the US is definitely far from perfect but does a lot more good than it is given credit for. and whenit comes to the strategic advantage. If you have countrie with known aggressive pasts that aren't on that great of terms with your country, wouldn't you like to be ready in case they decide to pounce. It's called a deterent, thats how things work.

I didn't say genocide was being committed by the coalition. I said that that sort of behavior is not acceptable just because its been going on for thousands of years. Although i did notice you didn't highlight Tyranny Exploitation or Crime.

Also who ultimately pays for the school that's being built outside your front door. I'm guessing its not charity or good will. Its going on the debt. That will no doubt be floated on the stock exchange. And surely you cant seriously think Iraq would ever be ready to attack.