McClellan's Book

[88Mariner]

Re: McClellan's Book

^^tough to argue with that.

Let me give it a shot: if we can cause friction, aka, divide the factions to fight against each other, which is the whole selling point of why the constitution was ratified by the colonies, then the government will be in an endless whirlpool of bickering. This is a good thing: the less our government does, the fewer harms it can cause both the peopel here and, peripherally, others around the world.....

Better, it marginalizes Bush's capability to start random shitstorms with other countries. The AsianTimes recently reported there are plans to start carpet bombing certaing government installations deep in Iran by the United States in July. The fact that the the original propoganda spewed by the media and the executive branch mouthpeices to sell us down the drain for the Iraq war, is now back in open discussion in this country: perfect timing to possibly prevent more propoganda, more wars and conflicts, from happening at the behest and will of this administration.

how's that toasty?

[Garrick]

Re: McClellan's Book

it hasn't caused any lessening of shitstorms from bush yet.... or the congress's lack of passing anything useful. we're pretty far into this "who's pissing further than who" state of mind. i don't know if your arguement is legit, senor...

[toasty]

Re: McClellan's Book

Let me give it a shot: if we can cause friction, aka, divide the factions to fight against each other, which is the whole selling point of why the constitution was ratified by the colonies, then the government will be in an endless whirlpool of bickering. This is a good thing: the less our government does, the fewer harms it can cause both the peopel here and, peripherally, others around the world.....

Better, it marginalizes Bush's capability to start random shitstorms with other countries. The AsianTimes recently reported there are plans to start carpet bombing certaing government installations deep in Iran by the United States in July. The fact that the the original propoganda spewed by the media and the executive branch mouthpeices to sell us down the drain for the Iraq war, is now back in open discussion in this country: perfect timing to possibly prevent more propoganda, more wars and conflicts, from happening at the behest and will of this administration.

how's that toasty?

I agree that having a government that doesn't just pass legislation at the drop of a hat, where it is tough to pass new laws, is a good thing. The worst laws are made when one party has sole control and just rams shit through, and the best are made when the parties are forced to work with one another.

I think that's different than what Garrick was saying though. He can speak for himself, but for my part, it is a given that ours is an adversarial system, but that doesn't mean it has to be acrimonious, too. Just because we have disagreements on policy doesn't mean we have to be dicks about it.

[toasty]

Re: McClellan's Book

I'd put a lot more stock in McClellan's he if went to congress with his information rather than trying to sell a book.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/30/mcclellan-id-be-happy-to-testify-about-bush-white-house/

[ddr]

Re: McClellan's Book

yup. the two term limits should be for all elected officials that handle more than one jurisdiction. i.e.

allow ppl like mike bloomberg to stay on as mayor, and your locality.

but there is ZERO FUCKING REASON that a kennedy/kerry/bush, should have office for decades. two term limits so we can have fresh voices and prevent our "representatives" from getting in bed with causes for too long. would anyone honestly fight for big medicine profits, insurance profits, oil profits etc if they were prevented from making money off them?

also, all gov't representattives should be forced to operate thier finances in blind trusts like the pres and VP. that way they dont have a clue what they are doing for themselves.

agreed.

[CactusBeats]

Re: McClellan's Book

I agree that having a government that doesn't just pass legislation at the drop of a hat, where it is tough to pass new laws, is a good thing. The worst laws are made when one party has sole control and just rams shit through, and the best are made when the parties are forced to work with one another.

Agreed. As for McClellan, he is a patriot for speaking out. Perhaps he was suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome" when he was employed by our occupying regime, uhh administration. Perhaps living outside the administration bubble has caused him to realize the absurdity of the logic that pervades that bubble. Good for him for having the courage & unmitigated gall to blow the whistle. Hopefully he follows through when Congress calls on him to testify, if only for posterity.


As a small but not trivial part of our administration's last eight years, this situation has led me to ponder the following potential future political scenario (bear with me for a moment and read on).

It seems to me that we are stuck with two parties who have become largely reactionary and without any real leadership. The Republicans are basically "obstructionists" whose only purpose is to deny any new gov't programs that actually serve the people through public means. They don't believe in gov't but cannot reduce gov't because of the great and admitted difficulty in doing that. So their chosen alternative is to render gov't powerless and destroy it by bankrupting the federal gov't to the point where at least half the federal budget goes to servicing interest on the national debt and remains that way indefintely, by not ever raising taxes high enough to reduce the national debt. Meanwhile this growth in federal spending through the privatization of gov't services (i.e. mercenaries like Blackwater, undercutting public school funding through school choice, No Child Left Behind used to justify further reductions in public school funds, the prison-industrial complex (privatized), etc.) is being & will be accomplished by using the federal gov't solely as a tool to funnel the maximum amount of funds to private corporations as is possible.

When most of the federal budget goes to servicing the debt (the other portion will fund a mostly privatized military with nothing left over for any other sector of federal gov't) and the government's hands are effectively tied, these obstructionists will have their wish: a powerless federal government, a greatly reduced bureaucracy, and a small super-wealthy corporate class of citizens, call them a bourgeoisie, who run society (and "government"), pay little or no taxes, and have a large poor working class or proletariat to do the hard work and service the debt through their high individual working tax rate.

The Democrat's place in this? A continuation of the ever-so-gradual slide to the political right where they eventually join the Republicans as one party. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Let's face it; no one can get elected in our system unless they can garner large corporate and wealthy individual donations. And when every federally elected official is by status-quo forced into perpetual campaign mode, all legislation and business conducted by these officials becomes tainted by a perpetual campaign mode mindset. A mindset that is by definition, above all else, interested in re-election and obsessed with obtaining the means to retaining the personal prestige attached to their re-election.

Lets call this government a "corpocracy;" a government that dually serves as a wholely owned and "publicly" operated subsidiary & administrator of private industry where the privatiers themselves take turns at the helm (the Presidency) using this "puppet government" as both an administrator who funds industry and subsidiary that utilizes gov't as a repressive tool to control the masses (through taxes & repressive edicts or "laws" based not in reality but in conservative ideology). Imagine a "Terminator" type world that doesn't overtly destroy its citizens, but "sustains" them by selling food, water, oxygen, & the most minimal healthcare to its inhabitants who must conform to the corpocracy's edicts & political philosophy in order to be granted "the privilege" to be able to continue to "purchase" these biologically required items from the government protected mega-monopolies that control the planet's remaining corporately owned precious resources (in a failing ecosystem affected by overpopulation and global climate-change) by demanding the relatively small remaining portion of the individual's income that does not already go to taxes, as payment for survival. What a brave new fascist & corporate world we all can "live" in.


And btw, no, I am not a Marxist, just a person who believes that government has its place in helping to create & sustain a civilized society with a vigorous middle-class.

[runningman]

Re: McClellan's Book

Mclellan knows that the Bush regime is about go under water.. they could be put up on war crimes in the near future and I'm pretty sure he wants to distance himself from the most hated president in USA history... Bush will go down even worse then Nixon...

[toasty]

Re: McClellan's Book

Well, McClellan IS going to testify before the judiciary committee, on June 20.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/09/mcclellan-to-testify-befo_n_106128.html

Should be very interesting...

As luck may have it, Valerie Plame is the keynote speaker at a banquet I'm attending on June 21 in central Missouri. Wonder if she'll be in DC for the hearings, and if that will impact her ability to attend our little thing.

[runningman]

Re: McClellan's Book

surprised nobody is talking about this today..

he testified before congress today..

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/20/mcclellan.testimony/index.html

Looks like Dick is the one he is trying to blame

[|Thrax|]

Re: McClellan's Book

yea, bump on this.. im re-reading this post today.

absolute bonkers.

I almost agree with cactus on the point of the republicans stance on economy.. but i think its a little far to call it almost "terminator" type power system, thats a "funny" and enlightening way to put it.

I understand this completely.

"demanding the relatively small remaining portion of the individual's income that does not already go to taxes, as payment for survival. What a brave new fascist & corporate world we all can "live" in."

but what about the idea of "working for what you have"
government handouts never work.

look at how fucked up social security is, now they want to privatize health care? HAHA

[lilsensa]

Re: McClellan's Book

When he was press secretary, I was glued to everything that he said. I was always impressed with him, and still am...I hope he does what he intends to do; bring justice and truth to the forefront for the American people..

[lilsensa]

Re: McClellan's Book

Seriously? No one else was inspired by him? I thought he was brilliant.

[runningman]

Re: McClellan's Book

I thought he was great.. until I see Dick and George all over national tv under oath telling their story I have to go with Scott... Nobody wants to talk about this because the people on here don't like it when somebody proves them wrong... all anybody could say before was "would he testify before congress?" Now that he has nobody wants to talk about it...

Where did all the Bush lovers go???

9/11
Patriot Act.. Suspending the Constitution
Katrina
Wiretapping
Recession
Iraq - Not just the war.. the lie to get into the war
Killing people in jail... http://www.infowars.com/?p=2764
Guantanamo Bay
Propaganda... Scott McLellan


You are all right for not wanting to talk here about Bush... he should be compared to Hitler more then any other US president.

[toasty]

Re: McClellan's Book

Back in the 2004 election, there was a lot of spirited Bush support. Hasn't been that way for a long time, though. Frankly, if I were a Bushie, I wouldn't be eager to venture into this forum lately either, as there's been very little good news since he got elected in 2004. It really started with Katrina, and he's been in a downward spiral ever since...

[runningman]

Re: McClellan's Book

I know MS users aren't stupid enough to think that Bush is good for the country.. I'm just venting at how some people will stay with Bush to the end. I just got home from a family function where they all LOVE Bush and I vented on here....hahah