Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

[toasty]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

that is what this forum is now. no more discussions of viewpoints and facts. just pitching for votes. toasty only puts forth anti mccain articles and article making him seem like jesus himself. same shit for shosh with mccain.

guys, give us some evidence as to why we should go one way or another.

Seriously dude, just what are you talking about? That is just factually incorrect. I looked back at my recent posts to do a sanity check, and I really don't think I've laid it on too thick with him at all. I actually go out of my way to avoid needlessly bashing McCain, difficult though it may be at times, in accordance with the campaign's express wishes.

To be clear, lest there be any confusion:

-I got involved with the Obama campaign back in February of 2007, because I really believed in the guy. At the time I joined St. Louis for Obama, there were 11 other members, and we all sat around a room and tried to figure out how to generate interest in his candidacy.
-I've been working on his campaign in one capacity or another ever since, although I'm not on his payroll and have no desire to be
-I'm on his national finance committee, have donated to his campaign, hosted fundraisers for him at my house, and sponsored fundraisers around St. Louis for him
-I really, really, really want to see him get elected

So yeah, I'm biased, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. I was on this train long before most, and I got on because I thought he was the right person for the job.

You are correct, however, that I've never set forth exactly why I think he deserves to be elected. The reason for that is pretty simple -- I didn't think anyone would care if I started a "why Barack Obama should be president" thread. Since you asked, though, here's a quick rundown:

1. He believes in increased transparency in government, and in decreasing the influence of lobbyists and special interests, and he's walked the walk on this front, passing legislation to that end in Congress and back in the Illinois legislature.

2. I believe that a large part of the office of president is "figurehead," and I believe he has the ability to help restore our standing in the world and amongst our allies. If you don't care about our standing in the world, let me humbly submit that your mindset is exactly the type of mindset that got us into this mess to begin with.

3. He understands the difference between wars that need to be fought and wars that do not, and had the good sense to understand that the Iraq war did not need to be fought when most of us were gung ho about going in there guns a'blazing.

4. I really have the sense that he will surround himself with intelligent people, not people that will tell him what he wants to hear. I also think, along the same lines, that he is an intellectually curious guy who is very interested in understanding the problems that confront him. It was not reported upon, at his request, but did you know that after his trip to Iraq in 2006, he held an off-the-record session with the imbedded media in Iraq where he asked the media questions about what they were seeing there? That's the mark of someone that is more interested in solutions than photo ops.

5. He's a realist and a pragmatist.

6. Oh, and he's in line with my belief system when it comes to all really all social issues.

I could actually go on for a while.

So there you go, those are some of the reasons I'm supporting Barack Obama for president. Got anything other than venom?

[Lorn]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

Ahhh...good ole american politics. Bashing each other upside the head.

I agree with Toasty on the President being the "Figurehead" of our country and therefore very important to put in a strong leader who will inspire the US citizen to work for a better future as well as be able to peacefully interact with our ever increasing interconnected world.

I also agree with Sean, both candidates will be party line fools. Each supporting party agenda's that continually alienate voters while spending money like kids in a candy store.

I suspect whoever is elected president will face four years of increasing public discontent and will be a one term president.

I truly wish one man could make a difference. Sadly, its not possible imo. Sometimes I wonder if people have forgotten we are living in a capitalist society. It has its goods and bads. If history shows the goods outweigh the bads then one must accept the responsibility of the bads to get the goods. This is where we are now. Cycles can't go in one direction forever. I am speaking economically in this regard and its my observation the popularity of a president is directly tied to the economic direction of the day.

At the end of the day one has to make up his/her own mind about things. The only thing I would wish for is people have the guts to understand they are responsible for their own lives. Hard knocks bang on everyones door. I accept and know it. Its a matter of getting up the next day and working hard and smart to get to a better place.

The world is filled with so many people. Different people. Its not possible for just one way to be right. The future is coming faster than any of us can know. Should be an exciting ride.

[thesightless]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

also keep inmind you never truly see a president's policies pay off until rouhgly a decade or so after they are implemented. bush is the exception whereas his second half had immediate negative effects.

to toasty, im not spitting venom at these 2, im just saying, you/shosh make obama/mccain look like the fucking saviour. they arent. you guys mis represent them a lot. obama is party line, moreso than clinton i beleive. so is mccain, and that guy is scary. i dont need to go on about mccain. he is slightly less irritating than GW, and that only makes him slightly less. obama, however, is a pawn, a trophy puppet put forward because of what he is, not who he is.

you make it sound like this guy is jesus. he isnt. more like pinnochio.

[thesightless]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/140965

right there folks, couldnt say it better. we are fucked.

[Jenks]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

we are fucked.

No, just you. I'm doing great!

[shosh]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

4. I really have the sense that he will surround himself with intelligent people, not people that will tell him what he wants to hear. I also think, along the same lines, that he is an intellectually curious guy who is very interested in understanding the problems that confront him. It was not reported upon, at his request, but did you know that after his trip to Iraq in 2006, he held an off-the-record session with the imbedded media in Iraq where he asked the media questions about what they were seeing there? That's the mark of someone that is more interested in solutions than photo ops.

I loled in real life... Srsly, he will surround himself with intelligent people? I assume you base this on his track record correct? Because he has proven to always to that in the past. Strong ignorance imo.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1213...w_and_outlooks

I have also met with some members of the media... When I lived in UT I had a very long and serious conversation with Dodge Billingsley who was embedded several times during this war and he was saying that what we see on tv is the worse. For example, the iraqis for the most part are either supportive or dont give a shit about the us invasion. For them life hasnt changed much, except maybe they can now buy some nicer things and thats about it. The reason it is portrayed so bad is because of the numbers game. Only about 1-2% of iraqis are against the us and the invasion, but that adds up to quite a big number. Take Basra for example, a city of about 1 million people; if 1% of the people are against the US, that makes up for about 10,000 insurgents. That's a pretty big number fighting against our soldiers, therefore the damage is great and it looks very bad.
Is war the right thing? Like I've mentioned before, I cant say if we need to leave or stay in iraq. It's hard and complicated. Was ousting Saddam the right thing to do? 1000000% fuckin yes. Having lived under a communist dictatorship, I remember waiting for the americans to come and help us as they had promised at the treaty of Yalta, but instead they left us to rot with the russians. It was a difficult task ousting the regime and it had repercussions felt for many years. What any of us had given for someone to help us overturn the regime and that horrible monster (Romania's Ceausescu).

As far as McCain goes, I dont think he's the savior and I definitely dont think he was the best one for the job, but thats who the republicans have and although he terrifies me, he terrifies me much less than Obama. I dont think either parties had any strong candidates running in the primaries, which is a sad state of our country.

Amen.

[thesightless]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

man.......i was thinking that the stupidity and pathologically short attention span of this country's citizens will truly bring an end to this great idea of a united states and the principles and economics are being played due to the aforementioned stupidity, preyed on by a few who realize where we are, and are taking advantage. unfortunetly, we wont know until its too late.

[toasty]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

obama is party line, moreso than clinton i beleive.

Nope, Clinton votes more consistently with the democrats than Obama, 97.7% to 96.7%. Not a big gap in raw numbers, though, which is totally unsurprising in light of the fact that almost everyone in Congress has voted straight party line for at least the last 16 years. This just in.

[shosh]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

man.......i was thinking that the stupidity and pathologically short attention span of this country's citizens will truly bring an end to this great idea of a united states and the principles and economics are being played due to the aforementioned stupidity, preyed on by a few who realize where we are, and are taking advantage. unfortunetly, we wont know until its too late.

that was deep. was that directed towards my post?

[thesightless]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

that was deep. was that directed towards my post?

not at all, truly comes from two co workers here that i swear to god should have thier legal rights as US citizens revoked.

kevin W -- obama is a terrorist(yelling the word), he is a muslim fake! the man hates this country and is going to be its downfall... and much much more uneducated, racist, disgusting remarks

sarabjeet S -- john mccain is a warlord in the making, who has no idea of what it takes to manage anything... he is borderline KKK and they are setting up the country for him to take over. they are going to off obama.

kevin W is also responsible for this gem (loosly quoted and severly summized)
...."they have a cure for aids, its a machine, they use it in europe, it takes blood from you, boils it to kill the virus, and then re-injects you with the clean blood"------

i asked him, if they boil the blood, wouldnt it kill the blood cells as well? i.e. wouldnt you die within 2 minutes of receiving a pint's worth of dead blood cells and congealed plasma?

[thesightless]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

Nope, Clinton votes more consistently with the democrats than Obama, 97.7% to 96.7%. Not a big gap in raw numbers, though, which is totally unsurprising in light of the fact that almost everyone in Congress has voted straight party line for at least the last 16 years. This just in.

which co-incides with my original post in that we need to change the houses before we think a new president will change anything that is going on.

[toasty]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

which co-incides with my original post in that we need to change the houses before we think a new president will change anything that is going on.

To be clear, I don't think that Obama is going to get into office and a big rainbow is going to encircle the nation and suddenly, magically, everyone will be holding hands and singing kum-ba-yah. I do think he has a different take on the governing process, though, that will be good for the nation. Maybe that makes me naive, and maybe he'll prove me 100% wrong, but I don't think so.

[MJDub]

Re: Why is Bush Helping the Saudis build Nukes?

To be clear, I don't think that Obama is going to get into office and a big rainbow is going to encircle the nation and suddenly, magically, everyone will be holding hands and singing kum-ba-yah. I do think he has a different take on the governing process, though, that will be good for the nation. Maybe that makes me naive, and maybe he'll prove me 100% wrong, but I don't think so.

That sums up my position as well. Obama is certainly not the messiah, but I do support him rather than just being against a candidate (although I am vehemently against McCain on just about every policy stance from Iraq to the economy to abortion) because he brings a fresh and most likely substantive perspective on how to correct the present course of the government.