Obama in Europe

[Cj Tari]

Re: Obama in Europe

u mad?

haha no, im not mad, i know most of the things you state in here are just to mess around.

but still, like i said before, its like listening to talk radio, its all about bashing the other side yet, youre not able to make youre own side look good.

[BSully828]

Re: Obama in Europe

but I haven't heard anyone that would otherwise be considering voting for him up in arms over the fact that he's over there and not here.

Which is precisely my point. Those that are pro-Obama are going to align their view to see his actions in the best possible light. Those who are anti-Obama will do just the opposite. One side oft he fence sees this trip as a triumphant step towards the return of America as respected leader, the other a weak-kneed Eurotrip of ballwashing and Americabashing.

These two sides are not the sides in question - their vote has already been cast and there is little he can do to sway their opinion one way or the other - it lies with those in between. And to those of us in between this whole event is just another trip down a very well-traveled path. Full of sound and fury but......well you know the rest.

I wish I could get as motivated and inspiried by his words as others are, I really do. That kind of passion is what the people need in order to take interest in the ruling body that governs our lives. But I see very little in Obama that I didn't see in the endless string of previous candidates that spoke glowing promise of what they will do, then fail in the face of the giant machine that is Washington.

[toasty]

Re: Obama in Europe

^^Well, let me ask you this, serious questions:

1. Do you agree with me that Obama puts the US in a better position to regain some credibility with the rest of the world?
2. Does that matter to you?

[Localizer]

Re: Obama in Europe

stfu, you live in holland (jk)

go tell that to someone who lives under an oppressive regime. go tell that to the iraqis who have been killed by saddam. wait, you cant because.... they're dead? right... go to fuckin iraq and ask them if they have a better life now or before with saddam.

jenks - its because of you and others who follow the fuckin socialist ideologies of the liberals and fail to see the truth because obamas ass hair is in their way that the country is in grave danger.

If you're gung ho about Iraq, by all means, feel free to join a mercenary group and head on over there. Just don't use my tax money to lose millions of dollars of weapons and frivolously waste on the private sector who have half-assed the progress in Iraq.

[MJDub]

Re: Obama in Europe

Shosh your vitriol is so misplaced it's laughable. I'm interested in hearing some positive points you see in McCain (honestly). Instead of bashing Obama so much, talk up McCain some.

[shosh]

Re: Obama in Europe

Shosh your vitriol is so misplaced it's laughable. I'm interested in hearing some positive points you see in McCain (honestly). Instead of bashing Obama so much, talk up McCain some.

- he's not obama
- he's not as liberal as obama
- he will continue to fight terrorism and keep our country safe
- can you imagine obama as commander in chief? mccain is a true patriot, has military experience, wont cut our military budget to hurt us
- he wont throw away our last 5 years in iraq, he will try to win that war
- is pro life
- is pro gun
- is pro sanctity of marriage
- wants to end illegal immigration
- will keep bush tax cuts
- he's against socialized medicine
- he's willing to work with democrats and has proven it
- i'm a white successful male - voting obama will hurt me
- is a supporter of offshore drilling
- will not lead us into socialism and communism

in a hurry, will come back and complete later

Flag Desecration Constitutional Amendment

Summary: Vote to pass a joint resolution proposing a constitutional amendment that authorized Congress to ban physical desecration of the U.S. flag.

Obama's vote: NO

Immigration Enforcement and Border Fence Amendment

Summary:
- Urges an expansion of the zero-tolerance prosecution policy for undocumented immigrants to all 20 border sectors.
- Calls for the completion of 700 miles of pedestrian fencing along the border between the United States and Mexico.
- Allows for the deployment of up to 6,000 National Guard members to the southern border of the United States.
- Encourages the identification of undocumented immigrants for deportation that are currently in the United States prison system.
- States that any spending level changes cannot increase the federal deficit during the 2008 to 2013 timeframe or the 2008 to 2018 timeframe.

Obama's vote: NO

Denying Legal Status for Immigrants Convicted of Certain Crimes

Summary: Vote to pass an amendment that would prohibit undocumented immigrants convicted of aggravated felonies, domestic violence, stalking, violation of protection orders, crimes against children, or crimes relating to the illegal purchase or sale of firearms, from gaining legal status.

Obama's vote: NO

Amendment on Certain Energy-Related Programs, Including the Development of Oil Shale and Offshore Natural Gas

Summary: Vote to adopt an amendment that permits the Chairman of the Senate Budget Committee to increase spending levels on certain energy-related programs, including the development of natural gas off the coast of Virginia and the development of oil shale resources on public lands.

Obama's Vote: NO

Gulf of Mexico Energy Security Act of 2006

Summary: Vote to pass a bill that allows offshore oil and gas leasing in the 181 and 181 South areas within a year and plans to expand into the Eastern Planning, Central Planning and Western Planning areas at some future date.

Obama's Vote: NO

Firearms Manufacturers Protection bill

Summary: Vote to pass a bill that provides liability protection for manufacturers, dealers or importers of firearms or ammunition products, as well as their trade associations, for harm caused by criminal or unlawful misuse.

Obama's vote: NO

Declaring English the National Language

Summary: Vote to pass an amendment that declares English as the language of "sole legal authority" for the business of the federal government, and declares that no person has a right to require officials of the United States government to use a language other than English.

Obama's vote: NO

USA PATRIOT and Terrorism Prevention Reauthorization

Summary: Vote to adopt a conference report that extends the authority of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to conduct roving wiretaps and access certain business records through December 31, 2009, and makes the remaining 14 provisions of the Patriot Act permanent.

Obama's vote: YES

[toasty]

Re: Obama in Europe

^^Way to hit those talking points -- got any original thoughts?

Oh, and might I finally add...

[Yao]

Re: Obama in Europe

God I'm so tired of this whole discussion but I'd almost take a few to bash the crap out of most your points if it weren't for the fact that we clearly have completely different values in our lives. We'd probably be better off drinking a beer talking about hot women but definitely need to avoid the topic of politics at all time. I've seen too much in my lifetime to be eating crap like:

- he will continue to fight terrorism and keep our country safe

Terrorism? I hate to break this you, but I think expanding political and military presence all over the planet to secure your own economical interests isn't exactly kosher either. You get what you give mate. Muslim fundamentalism is a problem, but it could have been avoided from growing to it's current proportions.

- can you imagine obama as commander in chief? mccain is a true patriot, has military
experience, wont cut our military budget to hurt us

Ah great, there's no problem a big army can't solve. Get real, you need an army, but unless you're planning to invade the whole damn planet you definitely needn't more than you have now. Besides, that someone has a different view on leading your country doesn't mean he/she doesn't love it. By far the most ridiculous 'argument' in this list.

- he wont throw away our last 5 years in iraq, he will try to win that war

Get the fuck out while you still can. There's no winning there, and the list of reasons why is enough to write a while bloody research master thesis on. Mostly political and economical.

- is pro life

You mean he hates abortion and euthanasia? I'll be the one to decide wether I want to end my life if I'm in pain. Anyone forcing me to endure excruciating pain or suffering is not worth living him/herself. It's a form of abuse to do so IMO. As for abortion, it is not something to be taken lightly. However, I'd like to see the damage to a country's economy with the percentage of teen mothers the US has. It's not a solution, but should not be discarded on the basis of religious convicitions.

- is pro gun

Maybe there should be more shootings on schools in the US. We have practically none in Europe. Pro gunners just won't learn the lesson I guess...

- is pro sanctity of marriage

Religious stuff again. You live in a secular country, keep your faith indoors. The public space should be as neutral as possible to ensure that every religion, faith and lifestyle can interact in society.

- will keep bush tax cuts

Which as far as I know have predominantly favoured the richer people. Rethink those cuts, make them work for the man at the bottom as well.

- he's against socialized medicine

There's only a few things I want to be accessible to everyone no matter what: education and health care. They are the basis of a healthy population and workforce. There's no sense in making it unreachable for the common man, you'll be knawing at the pillars of a succesful economy.

- i'm a white successful male - voting obama will hurt me

How? Is he gonna hang you like white people used to do to the blacks? Is he gonna favour blacks in general so much that the white man will become the future Negro in the United States? This is a pretty prejudiced statement, borderine racist unless you can specify this argument, but I reckon you deserve a taste of what blacks have endured just for making this statement.

- will not lead us into socialism and communism

I'm sorry, socialism and communism? God, read a few history books and open your eyes man. McCarthy isn't in charge anymore, and please please please stop putting hard-edged labels on everything that might implicated empathy with a fellow human being.


Fuck, now I did take those minutes, and it wasn't a few. Now I'm mad.

[Jenks]

Re: Obama in Europe

nice post yao.

i can't even begin to argue with shosh about politics. it really isn't worth it for me.

[toasty]

Re: Obama in Europe

- i'm a white successful male - voting obama will hurt me

How? Is he gonna hang you like white people used to do to the blacks? Is he gonna favour blacks in general so much that the white man will become the future Negro in the United States? This is a pretty prejudiced statement, borderine racist unless you can specify this argument, but I reckon you deserve a taste of what blacks have endured just for making this statement.

Most of those weren't even worth your time to respond to, Yao, but this one kinda stuck in my crawl, too. Shosh, you're a: (1) white (2) successful (3) male, and somehow that means that Obama is the kiss of death for you? First and foremost, I have no idea what your whiteness or maleness has to do with anything, unless you believe -- well, I'm not even sure what you have to believe for your white maleness to be an issue in an Obama administration. It's puzzling.

I'm assuming the "successful" thing means you're concerned about your taxes going up. If you make in excess of $250,000/year or make the bulk of your income from capital gains, then you're probably right to think that your taxes will go up under Obama, because they will. Otherwise, they probably won't. Even if you are in a spot where you're likely to pay more taxes, though, taxes are one of many issues that you ought to consider. Yeah, yeah, yeah, vote your wallet, blah, blah, blah -- well, I did that for years and I can't say I'm happy with the outcome.

Why am I wasting time trying to make any sense? Wish I had the last few minutes back. Oh well, will post it anyway.

[MJDub]

Re: Obama in Europe

nice post yao.

i can't even begin to argue with shosh about politics. it really isn't worth it for me.

This.

Yao you said about everything I was thinking about saying including getting pissed for wasting your time.

[shosh]

Re: Obama in Europe

nice post yao.

i can't even begin to argue with shosh about politics. it really isn't worth it for me.

thats all you keep saying but you never make a fuckin valid point. oh wait you did. you got butthurt about my obama jokes and threatened to b& me and changed my user title.

God I'm so tired of this whole discussion but I'd almost take a few to bash the crap out of most your points if it weren't for the fact that we clearly have completely different values in our lives. We'd probably be better off drinking a beer talking about hot women but definitely need to avoid the topic of politics at all time. I've seen too much in my lifetime to be eating crap like:

- he will continue to fight terrorism and keep our country safe

Terrorism? I hate to break this you, but I think expanding political and military presence all over the planet to secure your own economical interests isn't exactly kosher either. You get what you give mate. Muslim fundamentalism is a problem, but it could have been avoided from growing to it's current proportions.

o'rly? it could have been avoided by doing shit and letting them do whatever they want? right

- can you imagine obama as commander in chief? mccain is a true patriot, has military
experience, wont cut our military budget to hurt us

Ah great, there's no problem a big army can't solve. Get real, you need an army, but unless you're planning to invade the whole damn planet you definitely needn't more than you have now. Besides, that someone has a different view on leading your country doesn't mean he/she doesn't love it. By far the most ridiculous 'argument' in this list.

exactly. we dont need more than we have now. but at the same time we dont need less either. as far as obama's patriotism, thats debatable. but again that makes me a redneck!

- he wont throw away our last 5 years in iraq, he will try to win that war

Get the fuck out while you still can. There's no winning there, and the list of reasons why is enough to write a while bloody research master thesis on. Mostly political and economical.

i disagree. we need to do exactly what we did with japan and germany. take over the country, not half-ass it like we do now. but because of fear of what other countries might say we have to give them control. they dont know what to do with it. look how well germany and japan turned out!

- is pro life

You mean he hates abortion and euthanasia? I'll be the one to decide wether I want to end my life if I'm in pain. Anyone forcing me to endure excruciating pain or suffering is not worth living him/herself. It's a form of abuse to do so IMO. As for abortion, it is not something to be taken lightly. However, I'd like to see the damage to a country's economy with the percentage of teen mothers the US has. It's not a solution, but should not be discarded on the basis of religious convictions.

end your own life but others shouldnt do that for you. as far as abortion goes, we can debate this for years.

- is pro gun

Maybe there should be more shootings on schools in the US. We have practically none in Europe. Pro gunners just won't learn the lesson I guess...

lol. c'mon man are we really talking about this? it doesnt take a brain to realize that being able to own a gun helps deter crime not encourage it. if someone wants to go on a shooting rampage they can find a gun regardless. but you live in europe and you have no clue what the liberty means. again its more about government control. the us constitution provides that nobody can infringe on our right to bear arms. here the liberals are going to do 2 things: 1) say the same thing you said (keep in mind DC had a ban on guns and yet is one of the leaders in the country in gun crimes); 2) are going to say you dont need assault rifles etc and say that the founding fathers didnt have those kind of guns in mind (which is true seeing how those guns didnt exist in those days).

- is pro sanctity of marriage

Religious stuff again. You live in a secular country, keep your faith indoors. The public space should be as neutral as possible to ensure that every religion, faith and lifestyle can interact in society.

our country was founded on the belief in God and that is one of the reasons of our downfall imo. No disrespect, but you live in Netherlands and that is not an issue there...

- will keep bush tax cuts

Which as far as I know have predominantly favoured the richer people. Rethink those cuts, make them work for the man at the bottom as well.

ok, but not to disfavor the well-to-do as obama intends

- he's against socialized medicine

There's only a few things I want to be accessible to everyone no matter what: education and health care. They are the basis of a healthy population and workforce. There's no sense in making it unreachable for the common man, you'll be knawing at the pillars of a succesful economy.

socialized medicine will mean increase in taxes and decrease of quality of care. the us has the best doctors in the world, best clinics, hospitals, etc. add socialized medicine and it all goes down the drain. less michael moore more logic

- i'm a white successful male - voting obama will hurt me

How? Is he gonna hang you like white people used to do to the blacks? Is he gonna favour blacks in general so much that the white man will become the future Negro in the United States? This is a pretty prejudiced statement, borderine racist unless you can specify this argument, but I reckon you deserve a taste of what blacks have endured just for making this statement.

of course im racist if i say something like that but if a black person says the same, it's considered correct? lmao. read my post above about taxes. he will favor the blacks, he has said that many times. when someone calls a person who is against obama a redneck (see the whole virginia thing) is just cool right?

- will not lead us into socialism and communism

I'm sorry, socialism and communism? God, read a few history books and open your eyes man. McCarthy isn't in charge anymore, and please please please stop putting hard-edged labels on everything that might implicated empathy with a fellow human being.

oh ive read history books and ive also lived in socialism and communism and what happened then is exactly the direction he wants to take this country now.

Fuck, now I did take those minutes, and it wasn't a few. Now I'm mad.

[Yao]

Re: Obama in Europe

Originally Posted by Yao View Post
God I'm so tired of this whole discussion but I'd almost take a few to bash the crap out of most your points if it weren't for the fact that we clearly have completely different values in our lives. We'd probably be better off drinking a beer talking about hot women but definitely need to avoid the topic of politics at all time. I've seen too much in my lifetime to be eating crap like:

- he will continue to fight terrorism and keep our country safe

Terrorism? I hate to break this you, but I think expanding political and military presence all over the planet to secure your own economical interests isn't exactly kosher either. You get what you give mate. Muslim fundamentalism is a problem, but it could have been avoided from growing to it's current proportions.

o'rly? it could have been avoided by doing shit and letting them do whatever they want? right

Nope, it could've been avoided by having less intrusive foreign politics. Bin Laden is a product of the US meddling in Afghanistan and other conflicts in the Middle-East (Iran, '79?). The Great Game the US played against the USSR during the cold war has spawned quite some grievances against the US. Russia is having -to a lesser extent though- the same problem. The repercussions of using other countries and people as tool to fight a control war indirectly.

- can you imagine obama as commander in chief? mccain is a true patriot, has military
experience, wont cut our military budget to hurt us

Ah great, there's no problem a big army can't solve. Get real, you need an army, but unless you're planning to invade the whole damn planet you definitely needn't more than you have now. Besides, that someone has a different view on leading your country doesn't mean he/she doesn't love it. By far the most ridiculous 'argument' in this list.

exactly. we dont need more than we have now. but at the same time we dont need less either. as far as obama's patriotism, thats debatable. but again that makes me a redneck!

Not a redneck per se Shosh, but the amount your govt spends on the military is insane. If the US isn't about undertaking expeditions such as the one in Iraq right now, you sure as hell don't have the need for an army as big as you have now. So yes, you could easily do with less if the US would just stay out of other countries.

- he wont throw away our last 5 years in iraq, he will try to win that war

Get the fuck out while you still can. There's no winning there, and the list of reasons why is enough to write a while bloody research master thesis on. Mostly political and economical.

i disagree. we need to do exactly what we did with japan and germany. take over the country, not half-ass it like we do now. but because of fear of what other countries might say we have to give them control. they dont know what to do with it. look how well germany and japan turned out!

Take over? And then? I've made this point before and will make it again: look at Africa dude...implanting your political system (and as a result your cultural values) doesn't work. IT DOESN'T WORK. Need I repeat that? Any changes you want to be lasting ones, need to be changes that have grown within the minds of people, a slow but veritable reprogramming. This takes generations, not a few years. Fuck, it took us about 2000 years, even more, to get to the point where 'democracy' is truly embedded in our culture, minds, being. Don't expect the rest of the planet to do it in less than one generation, that would be a foolish mistake.

That is why Iraq qon't work.

- is pro life

You mean he hates abortion and euthanasia? I'll be the one to decide wether I want to end my life if I'm in pain. Anyone forcing me to endure excruciating pain or suffering is not worth living him/herself. It's a form of abuse to do so IMO. As for abortion, it is not something to be taken lightly. However, I'd like to see the damage to a country's economy with the percentage of teen mothers the US has. It's not a solution, but should not be discarded on the basis of religious convictions.

end your own life but others shouldnt do that for you. as far as abortion goes, we can debate this for years.

You should be free to get the means to end your life, and if you're phisically unable to do so, get help in doing it. I think it's inhumane to make someone suffer if you have the means to fulfill someone's dying wish. Abortion: I don't like it, don't advocate the industrialization of it. But sometimes it's the preferrable option, depending on the situation.

- is pro gun

Maybe there should be more shootings on schools in the US. We have practically none in Europe. Pro gunners just won't learn the lesson I guess...

lol. c'mon man are we really talking about this? it doesnt take a brain to realize that being able to own a gun helps deter crime not encourage it. if someone wants to go on a shooting rampage they can find a gun regardless. but you live in europe and you have no clue what the liberty means. again its more about government control. the us constitution provides that nobody can infringe on our right to bear arms. here the liberals are going to do 2 things: 1) say the same thing you said (keep in mind DC had a ban on guns and yet is one of the leaders in the country in gun crimes); 2) are going to say you dont need assault rifles etc and say that the founding fathers didnt have those kind of guns in mind (which is true seeing how those guns didnt exist in those days).

If arms are to be removed, the first place the govt should look is with criminals, but if you remove the possibility of acquiring arms alltogether, it will become harder for gangs or perps to get their hands on that stuff. It's a simple fact that if there's no weapon within reach, you cannot use it, and most people actually get stabbed or shot with their own weapon.

However, i do recognize that this is a major cultural difference -the right to posession of arms is not something that came from nowhere but is a result of the fact that in older times people simply had the need to defend themselves from all kinds of threats. But society has changed a lot since then, you're not colonizing the continent anymore, so it is a law that might be reconsidered.

- is pro sanctity of marriage

Religious stuff again. You live in a secular country, keep your faith indoors. The public space should be as neutral as possible to ensure that every religion, faith and lifestyle can interact in society.

our country was founded on the belief in God and that is one of the reasons of our downfall imo. No disrespect, but you live in Netherlands and that is not an issue there...

Religions are totalitarian. You cannot have a true democracy if you let religion get too much influence in politics. There will be a shift from discourse to imposition. It's happening in my country right now, contrary to what you believe mate. I am fucking disgusted by my government right now, because Christian politicians are pushing their agenda and trying to take away all the rights and freedoms we've fought so hard for.

- will keep bush tax cuts

Which as far as I know have predominantly favoured the richer people. Rethink those cuts, make them work for the man at the bottom as well.

ok, but not to disfavor the well-to-do as obama intends

I agree mostly with that, but if you have to choose where to place the burden, it's not ethical to choke someone that's already having a hard time. If you make 250 k a year you may not like higher taxes on your income, but it's gonna go a long way before you end up eating plain pasta with cheese and ketchup for weeks on end. What is half a month's salary to one, may just be a peanut to the other.

- he's against socialized medicine

There's only a few things I want to be accessible to everyone no matter what: education and health care. They are the basis of a healthy population and workforce. There's no sense in making it unreachable for the common man, you'll be knawing at the pillars of a succesful economy.

socialized medicine will mean increase in taxes and decrease of quality of care. the us has the best doctors in the world, best clinics, hospitals, etc. add socialized medicine and it all goes down the drain. less michael moore more logic

I hate Michael Moore. But where did you get the idea that socialized medicine per default means decrease in quality of care? Even without Fatty Moore it's easy to see that the market is killing the quality of health care (not the medicine or level of education as such!). You have great doctors and clinics, but what's the benefit to the economy if only half of the population can afford it? Or a higher percentage than necessary ends up disabled, being a burden on the economy?

Our govt has partially taken over the US system of health care insurance, and I've worked for one such company for about a year. Had to tell someone she wasn't insured for a cancer treatment because she couldn not afford it. If that is capitalized health care, then please keep it away from me.

- i'm a white successful male - voting obama will hurt me

How? Is he gonna hang you like white people used to do to the blacks? Is he gonna favour blacks in general so much that the white man will become the future Negro in the United States? This is a pretty prejudiced statement, borderine racist unless you can specify this argument, but I reckon you deserve a taste of what blacks have endured just for making this statement.

of course im racist if i say something like that but if a black person says the same, it's considered correct? lmao. read my post above about taxes. he will favor the blacks, he has said that many times. when someone calls a person who is against obama a redneck (see the whole virginia thing) is just cool right?

I reckon that 1) Obama will not seriously be able to give direct benefits to the black (one strategy might be affirmative action though) and 2) it's about friggin time black people (especially in the south) work their way up into the middle class. Because right now they predominantly form the American lower class. Is that how it's supposed to be then? I think what Obama rather means to do is not disfavour you or other white middle class americans, but rather restoring the balance and diminishing the correlation between race/ethnicity and socio-economic position or status.

If you believe capitalism is a win-win system, then you shouldn't be afraid of other groups in your society acquiring the same standard of living you have.

- will not lead us into socialism and communism

I'm sorry, socialism and communism? God, read a few history books and open your eyes man. McCarthy isn't in charge anymore, and please please please stop putting hard-edged labels on everything that might implicated empathy with a fellow human being.

oh ive read history books and ive also lived in socialism and communism and what happened then is exactly the direction he wants to take this country now.

Read again.

Fuck, now I did take those minutes, and it wasn't a few. Now I'm mad.

K, forget the mad comment. But you still need to wisen up a bit IMO...

[thesightless]

Re: Obama in Europe

obama =




mccain not in picture, but this idiot obama is so voerrated simply because he isnt GFW2's party.

this idiot is going to win and fuck things up even more. not saying mcain is good, helll he will be worse than barak, but comon, this guy is an IDIOT. just look, dont rely on the fact that he isnt republican, he is stoooooooooopid. he has already bullshitted about two dozen topics that he reversed opinions on.

DO NOT VOTE FOR EITHER OF THEM PLEASE, FOR THE SAKE OF THE FREE WORLD DO NOT VOTE OBAMA OR MCCAIN.

[Jenks]

Re: Obama in Europe

thats all you keep saying but you never make a fuckin valid point. oh wait you did. you got butthurt about my obama jokes and threatened to b& me and changed my user title.

1. i don't get mad at conversations on the internet.

2. i made vaild points long before you found the political forum, and i still do, but i don't need, or want, to rehash anything for you. I don't want you to take offense or anything about it, there are just too many fundamental things about the way you view the world that are vastly different from mine, and arguing these political points with such a fundamental different base is like running into a brick wall, from both sides, it's just not going to work. It's just not worth it when we're coming from such different places.

3. i didn't get butt hurt about you being racist. there is no place for blatantly racist jokes in here, or anywhere. drop the n-bomb all you want in public dude, kinda wish you would, but not on MS- gee sorry if i took offense to you dropping the n-bomb. this isn't 1876 dude, get a grip.

4. i can't change custom titles. it's funny tho. it's obviously chapping your ass, so hey, pick whatever you want and i'll see if someone can change it.

is there anything else on your mind shosh?