Russia attacks Georgia

[Leha]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

On Monday, hackers took over the Web site of Georgia’s parliament and replaced it with an image that drew parallels between Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili and Adolf Hitler, Adair said.

good job

[Miroslav]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

I have nothing against americans, i have a lot of friends americans, but when i look what information you get from CNN i'm really confused. It's clear that America wants Georgia in NATO to have their bases there (very close to Russia, Czech rep and Poland is the same), it's clear. You made there revolution, you trained Georgian army for several years, equiped their army for several years, and it's clear that your politician are not happy with the result now, when Russia with old weapon punished very well equiped georgian army. But the most important is what kind of arms where chosen to start this conflict, the aim was to kill as much as possible people, they didn't care if civilian or not. 40 thousand people (Osetians) ran to Russia, not to Georgia, 1600 killed during first night by georgian attack (not russians! as you get from CNN). Ofcourse there are some Georgians there, almost 1/3 of the population, but still that is Osetia. And now i'm sure no one there wanted to be a part of Georgia after it. Why Russia bombed Gori, because it's 30 km from Tshinvali and from this place Georgia started this conflict.
Personally i think the time of this conflict is not random, Bush is going away from December, McCain is going to change him and that would be his election campaign "TO STOP RUSSIA, TO HELP SMALL GEORGIA WITH AGRESSION FROM RUSSIA" That's clear, and i'm sure he will win

I thought the same way you did at first. But then I became less certain that it was just Georgia who was the aggressor. It's quite plausible that Russia backed the Ossetian separatists and prodded the Georgians into war so that they could spin an excuse to attack them. It's no secret how much the Russians hate the Georgians, and they have many reasons to kill them. And there is talk of such Russian tricks in Chechnya as well... I just don't know. I suspect we'll never know the real answer.

Also, I'm quite confident in saying that America never expected Georgia to go take on Russia militarily and win. Russia is a massive country and a nuclear power, there is no way that a nation like Georgia could ever win such a fight.

[anonin]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

attacks by russian hackers against georgian web sites, .

oh shit son!!! Russian hax0rz!!!11111111

[Leha]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

It's no secret how much the Russians hate the Georgians, and they have many reasons to kill them.

That's something new for me, i'm russian and i do not hate georgians. That's fucking politics. I agree with you that Russia backed Osetia, because there are no better friend in Caucasus for Russia than Osetia. Remember Beslan, why Chechen have chosen small city in Osetia, just because it's russian best friends in this region and Russia will always support them. 70% of all population in South Osetia have russian passports, because they all have relatives in North Osetia, that's one nation divided by mountains, they want to live together, and i'm sure most of Osetian will chose Russia with cheap gas, growing economics, then poor Georgia with 10% of GDP going to military. Russia supported Osetia, they provokated Georgia, Georgia started war and has been punished, that is exactly what politics in Russia and Osetia wanted. Now Georgia will never see it as it's territory. Btw if you look back, in 1920 Georgia killed in Osetia 18 000 people

[Miroslav]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

Russia supported Osetia, they provokated Georgia, Georgia started war and has been punished, that is exactly what politics in Russia and Osetia wanted.

Here's the thing. I agree with pretty much everything you say about South Ossetia. I'm somewhat aware of their violent history with Georgia, and I understand that the South Ossetians do not want to live under Georgia. Georgians have certainly done bad things to them repeatedly over time. That much is clear.

But as far as Russia hating Georgia, well I will rephrase that: your government has many reasons to hate Georgia. And it goes much further than just South Ossetia. I could list the reasons, but I suspect you know them as well as I do...and they are already in this thread. And I suspect - just as you seem to say - that the Russians have been very active in exploiting the situation with the breakaway republics against Georgia. It's possible that Georgia started it all; it's also possible that Russia basically annexed Ossetia and supported it in firing on the Georgians, provoking the Georgians into an attack that would give Russia a good public excuse to attack Georgia. Which is really true? We'll probably never know. But what seems clear is that the Russian response very purposefully went well beyond South Ossetia.

I think the reason that the world is so alarmed is because we've already seen what life is like with a very expansive and authoritarian Russia. And it's ugly. Yes, the Americans have done horrible things and they shouldn't be in Iraq, but they have still never been as extreme as to militarily occupy half of Europe for 50 years. I and my family have certainly been witness to life under an aggressive Russia; Russian tanks occupied my homeland and Russian politics forced us to eventually flee to American. People are rightfully scared that Russia is regressing and we are returning to those Cold War times, when Russia could bully its neighbors at will with its massive army.

[Leha]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

To speak about cold war, if the new cold war started, it started America. Russia do not want invest now to military, there are some money from gas and oil, but still there a lot of problems to do. America wants Ukraine and Georgia in NATO, America do radar in Czech republic and rockets in Poland, What russian have to think? about Iran? come on, everyone knows that it's made just for Russia. And now,Russia has to answer to it, but they do not want invest money to some more rockets that can overfly this radar and some other technical things, that cost money. America has it, but Russia don't. I'm completely sure that Russia is happy with it's territory, no one wants to occupy some countries. Imagine now if Russia will do it's bases, radars and rockets in Cuba, South America and so on, what Americans will think? So who is starting now new cold war? Not Russia for sure.

[88Mariner]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

can you possibly explain the reason russia needs to invest in rockets that can get past the radar? the whole setup is because russia is increasingly going off its rocker. And the russians do support thier government returning to supremacy. no doubts about that.

[Miroslav]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

To speak about cold war, if the new cold war started, it started America. Russia do not want invest now to military, there are some money from gas and oil, but still there a lot of problems to do. America wants Ukraine and Georgia in NATO, America do radar in Czech republic and rockets in Poland, What russian have to think? about Iran? come on, everyone knows that it's made just for Russia. And now,Russia has to answer to it, but they do not want invest money to some more rockets that can overfly this radar and some other technical things, that cost money. America has it, but Russia don't. I'm completely sure that Russia is happy with it's territory, no one wants to occupy some countries. Imagine now if Russia will do it's bases, radars and rockets in Cuba, South America and so on, what Americans will think? So who is starting now new cold war? Not Russia for sure.

Look, up until recently I even somewhat agreed with you on the missile defense shield. But regardless of my opinion - if it wasn't aimed towards Russia before, it is now! Russia's disproportionate actions have just convinced the rest of the world just how "peaceful" they really are and have provided the best argument for the missile defense system. Why do you think the majority of Poles suddenly support the missile defense deal for the first time, after a year of stalling? And now Ukraine wants into the deal too. And can you blame them? Maybe last week, anyone who claimed that the Russians might invade all of Ukraine might have sounded ridiculous...now, it's not so crazy anymore.
By the way, have you noticed that Russia's only allies seem to be other brutal, military-style dictatorships like Iran, Cuba, Syria, Venezuela, maybe China?... My point is that every democratic country is now scared of Russia.

[Leha]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

And now Ukraine wants into the deal too. And can you blame them?

Do you know that 70% of all ukrainians are against to be in NATO? I'm sure Jushenko will never be the presiden again, his popularity in ukraine is less than ever. Ukraine are our brothers, Russia is much more close to them then USA

By the way, have you noticed that Russia's only allies seem to be other brutal, military-style dictatorships like Iran, Cuba, Syria, Venezuela, maybe China?... My point is that every democratic country is now scared of Russia.

That's the myth what you get from CNN. What you mean democratic country? Georgia with pro american president? half of the world is scared of USA. I'm really happy that there are some countries that don't afraid USA and can say NO to their plans to control all world, and USA government is angry now that they cant control everyone everywhere.

[Miroslav]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

^^^^ Look, this is my fear...

I am Slovak. I know what happened when Russian tanks rolled over my country in 1968. I come from a nation that knows what it means to be held down under Russia's military boot. And so do Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria, Luthiania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, and a bunch of other small countries. We all suffered under brutal Russian dictatorship for decades and we HATED IT. And none of us ever want to be under Russia's domination again.

And the same goes for the Ukrainians. They know they will reluctantly be "your brothers" when you invade them next and hold guns to their heads. We've all seen this before.

You can villify America all you want. The fact is, all of Europe, especially Eastern and Central Europe, is now anxiously trying to protect itself from RUSSIA, not America. The exact pretext for the Georgian invasion is irrelevant at this point. What matters is that Russia has demonstrated that it will maintain and expand its spheres of influence by the force of its military, rather than through economic or democratic reform. For all its many faults, at least America tries to grow its influence through market competition and democratic unions rather than through intimidation and military invasion.

I still have many family members over in my homeland, most of whom lived through the Velvet Revolution of 1989. We had all hoped that Russia would finally embrace democratic and economic reforms and stop threatening its neighbors. We're all frightened and saddened to see Russia going back to its old ways as soon as it gathered its strength.

Well, I'm done here...I don't think this is going to get us anywhere. It's just really unfortunate that it seems to be ending up this way with Russia and the rest of Europe...again.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gI-dl13xRlpQ8Bwi-xglbKfzmvYAD92JGO0G0

[88Mariner]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

but uh..you know...iran may have nukuler weapons and we need to fuck with them first. damn ay-rabs.

[runningman]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

This has started up again an hour ago. Funny Cheney goes to Ukraine and Georgia and two weeks later Ukraine helps bomb Ossetia to kill Russians. No the US has nothing to do with this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aNAcR5ftJbHg&refer=europe

[Shpira]

Re: Russia attacks Georgia

I think a lot of you guys need to read up on the background of this conflict. . . This was in the coming for a long time as I pointed out when kosovo became independent.

p.s. ". . .Russian Governmet hates Georgians" ??? - A government hates another government. . . I just think thats funny.