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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
^ ah...hopeless...forget it!
^ ah...hopeless...forget it!
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
Of course it is! Probably one of the most dangerous out there. Its just "safer" to drink because its regulated and one knows exactly what goes in there (vs street drugs where unscrupulous dealers mix anything and everything together). Of course, because its legal it causes a whole load of other problems, not least of which is getting into accidents and killing people while driving under the influence.
There is also unregulated alcohol (ie, moonshine) which can be lethal if not made properly or over-consumed!
So, yeah, alcohol is a drug. But then I just said drugs are bad, not that I don't indulge every once in a while (drinking of course)...
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
I don't like the twist this thread took, and I am not the type of person to hide behind by my finger, so i'm gona be blunt and strait forward about this:
First, a basic rule of a dj is to know his crowd/audience, and I surely know how to judge my audience coz I grew up on stage:
I am proud of being an afterhours dj, which means I play NASTY & DARK music for a particular audience of the early (and late) mornings. And I can guarantee you that 90% of that audience is not holding a bottle of milk in hand, but a bottle of water or redbull...
Why? Coz it is the "nastiest" yet the "loveliest" music crowd you can find around, they are surely all sky high on drugs and not alcohol. And as for judging a crowd, I escape from alcohol audience where most of the time fights, violence and trouble happen between clubbers. This is the main catch between alcohol crowds and non-alcohol crowds...with the non-alcohol crowd you can be sure that nothing will happen, not even a slap across the face all night long. I am so anti-alcohol person and I believe that all western countries, except Holland, are so hypocrite concerning the drug subject.
Lets take Holland for ex where soft drugs are legal since years now. What do they get for that:
> Less violence, less heavy addicts, less alcoholics, less mafias, less dealers, less AIDS, less public debt, less public deficit etc etc...
> More economic strength and therefore better living standards, more peace, more fun, more tourism, more national income etc etc...
Also, to point out that Holland, unlike the rest of Europe, is the ONLY country that has been facing inflation and cost of living with all easy since the early 90's till today, simply coz soft drugs (and sex- but thats not the issue here) were turned into LEGAL and controlled industries.
Compare the clubs of Holland with the rest of the clubs in the world, compare the dutch crowd and mentality with the rest of the world.....they are far ahead of all other advanced nations in this matter.....coz they are not HYPOCRITE about it!
Now other neighboring nations are starting to learn the lesson: Switzerland, France, Belgium & Spain have officially de-penalized it (not fully legal yet though, but on the way)
Now the US are trying to make a prescription thing, and in California only, when they have to face the most urgent matter since the fall of communism: crystal.
Yes, the most dangerous drug ever to exist, and the easiest to produce, and this issue is unfortunately getting out of hand in the US, almost as much as the brown in Afghanistan or the white in Colombia.
Had they followed the dutch system, this issue would probably have not gotten so far and deeply rooted in society. But no, lets keep on being hypocrite about this...
> The more you forbid people from doing something, the more they will do it and go beyond...that's human nature.
Where do I stand on this: LEGALIZE SOFT DRUGS & BAN ALCOHOL
(09:00am, afterhours in one of the darkest underground clubs of Beirut)
Live and let live!Comment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
holy shit lori.....u,ve never been to holland have you ?I don't like the twist this thread took, and I am not the type of person to hide behind by my finger, so i'm gona be blunt and strait forward about this:
First, a basic rule of a dj is to know his crowd/audience, and I surely know how to judge my audience coz I grew up on stage:
I am proud of being an afterhours dj, which means I play NASTY & DARK music for a particular audience of the early (and late) mornings. And I can guarantee you that 90% of that audience is not holding a bottle of milk in hand, but a bottle of water or redbull...
Why? Coz it is the "nastiest" yet the "loveliest" music crowd you can find around, they are surely all sky high on drugs and not alcohol. And as for judging a crowd, I escape from alcohol audience where most of the time fights, violence and trouble happen between clubbers. This is the main catch between alcohol crowds and non-alcohol crowds...with the non-alcohol crowd you can be sure that nothing will happen, not even a slap across the face all night long. I am so anti-alcohol person and I believe that all western countries, except Holland, are so hypocrite concerning the drug subject.
Lets take Holland for ex where soft drugs are legal since years now. What do they get for that:
> Less violence, less heavy addicts, less alcoholics, less mafias, less dealers, less AIDS, less public debt, less public deficit etc etc...
> More economic strength and therefore better living standards, more peace, more fun, more tourism, more national income etc etc...
Also, to point out that Holland, unlike the rest of Europe, is the ONLY country that has been facing inflation and cost of living with all easy since the early 90's till today, simply coz soft drugs (and sex- but thats not the issue here) were turned into LEGAL and controlled industries.
Compare the clubs of Holland with the rest of the clubs in the world, compare the dutch crowd and mentality with the rest of the world.....they are far ahead of all other advanced nations in this matter.....coz they are not HYPOCRITE about it!
Now other neighboring nations are starting to learn the lesson: Switzerland, France, Belgium & Spain have officially de-penalized it (not fully legal yet though, but on the way)
Now the US are trying to make a prescription thing, and in California only, when they have to face the most urgent matter since the fall of communism: crystal.
Yes, the most dangerous drug ever to exist, and the easiest to produce, and this issue is unfortunately getting out of hand in the US, almost as much as the brown in Afghanistan or the white in Colombia.
Had they followed the dutch system, this issue would probably have not gotten so far and deeply rooted in society. But no, lets keep on being hypocrite about this...
> The more you forbid people from doing something, the more they will do it and go beyond...that's human nature.
Where do I stand on this: LEGALIZE SOFT DRUGS & BAN ALCOHOL
(09:00am, afterhours in one of the darkest underground clubs of Beirut)
Live and let live!
well i'll put it this way.... i would rather walk through beroute naked with an american flag tattoed to my face...its a very very rough place....i was over just over 10-12 years ago and i swear then that i would never go back...the streets are full of junkies..high constantly walking to you asking if you want to buy drugs, 9 times out of ten as soon as u say yes and pull out ur money ur surrounded with people holding knifes or something worse, say good buy to ur purse...its gangsta city...i,ve seen people smoking heroin in the doorway to a police station....right in the main part of the city there are traffic lights FOR CHILDREN ( yes thats right for children ) saying that @ this time its either safe for children to walk here or not...
the atmosphere to say the very very least is frightening, you are constantly surrounded by potential muggers ( maybe a bit like beroute with regards to bombers )..its certainly one place that if ur not used to or dont blend in well ur @ huge risk
Lets take Holland for ex where soft drugs are legal since years now. What do they get for that:
> Less violence, less heavy addicts, less alcoholics, less mafias, less dealers, less AIDS, less public debt, less public deficit etc etc...
> More economic strength and therefore better living standards, more peace, more fun, more tourism, more national income etc etc...
^ who ever told u that is talking rubbish
soft drugs are not legal they are decriminalised which is actually different from being legal as such...you cant smoke a joint walking down the street. if ur caught the likelyhood is you will get away witha warning but its not a risk i would take myself....
most of the violence goes untold because people are actually frightened by what they see, there is actually more dealers than u would like to imagine there was, trust me @ certain points in time during the day 8 people out of 10 you see walking in the city centre are dealers or someone working for a dealer
as for the hash cafe's well recently the government has been clamping down on them and closing a lot of them down due to the fact that many of them are set up just for the tourists and are considering licensing cafe's only to sell cannabis to people with a dutch passport which means that tourists are certainly going to be put @ more risk because they will have to goto street dealers for a smoke.....you want to have a look @ the REAL holland lori ?..... take a look @ its mental health record and also its cancer rates!
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
^ Yes I have been to Holland many times, as a matter of fact I lived in Brussels for a while in the early 90's and I am familiar not only with Amsterdam but also with the back country. What you are referring to is the red quarter and its surrounding, and the other place that looks even nastier is Rotterdam. But what you also missed to mention is that all those dealers are imigrants from north Africa, most of them unempolyed illegal imigrents. Yes, indeed, in Holland you have more unemployed illegal north Africans than local real dutch. So this criminal and decadent environment you refer to is related to other things than just legal matters concerning soft drugs, cancer or criminality. And yes I know of records, Holland doesn't have more cancer patients than Italy, France or other countries, and surely less than Ireland.
Have you ever met real dutch from the back country? The ones that don't hang out in the red quarters where all coffee shops, sex theaters and all the crap is massed? Yes, all junkies of Europe and the world go there for drug seasoning, its part of the ducth strategy to attract tourists. Those people you say you see wasted in the streets of Amsterdam they are not dutch, they are a mix of tourist that come from all over the world, tourist with several backgrounds of hard working people who choose that destination to blow up some steam and have fun maybe once or twice a year. Of course you also have loosers in all that, but its not more than everywhere else. You see it more concentrated there in that neighborhood due to coffee shop and sex industry...well now that I think of it, I am sure you hang out there as well (in some sex store or something..); does this make you a looser or a tourist who went there for fun? But there are similar nasty neighborhoods without even tourists all around the world like in Napoli, Stockholm, Madrid, Paris where cops don't even dare to set foot in.
But thats not the issue I raised, if societies wana ban what kills and causes cancer, well they should ban alcohol as well coz that surely hurts much more than soft drugs, it destroys the liver, it is addictive and turn people violent which makes it even more dangerous to others: Look at the British hooligans for ex, they killed more than 40 Italians in the Heizel just because they were a bunch of alcoholics under its effect, and this in a sport event! Hooligans are born from alcohol! I have never seen hooligans born from soft drugs, all I saw coming out of that was concerts like woodstock and the hippy days of the 60's...but that was not violence, it didnt kill anyone.
How many people get killed every year on the world roads related directly or indirectly to alcohol? How many young clubbers end up kissing the wall while driving on the way home after clubbing? Is it because of soft drugs or alcohol? Or as a matter of fact ANYTHING taken mixed with ALCOHOL!
Lets not get into too many variables of what and why... you are talking about cancer??! Lets be Macchiavellic a bit here: People are dying of lung cancer and they never touched a cigarette in their lives, pollution obliges
How much do you thing stress kills?? You should check those records and you will be surprised. Stress is the major cause of most body failures...To my knowledge soft drugs easy up tension and stress big time, unlike alcohol that increases it drastically... So if you wana live few hundred years, not smoking is not enough, and alcohol will surely shorten it more than soft drugs, in relation to how much is consumed of course
And soft drugs ARE legal in Holland, not de-penalized, LEGAL, up to a certain limit.
But compare apple-to-apple on what kills the most between alcohol and soft drugs, what causes most problems on individual and social level, well I stick to my opinion...
And last but not least, soft drugs have inspired music and arts, not alcohol..Comment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
^ agreed. Can't recall ever hearing about someone smoking a joint and beating their wife.It's never too late to become the person you always thought you would be.Comment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
in all fairness you are correct in just about everything u said, i,m only talking about my personal experience but everyone always uses the alcohol and cigarette thing as a counter argument on this one, what they always forget to mension is that i dont see many gangs going about shooting other gang members just because he didnt give the other guy his ciggarette back, you only have to look @ the carl cox incident last year where there was a drug related shooting in some event he was playing @... i have never seen outside the city life in holland but i know a few people who live in holland who i sometimes talk to online and they seem some of the most relaxed people you will ever meet...i still dont agree with the attitude to drugs though, i used to but becoming ill with phsycosis a while back changed my perception on just how dangerous the toxicity of some of these substances can be, thc isnt broken down with the liver very well and of curse ones its in there you have to give your body functions time to deal with it, unfortunately i didnt and became very ill...self inflicted...at least i,m honest about it....i have to be....people can learn from my mistakes....if i told you all the full story you would see thast its a place no human should ever want to goto. its doesnt matter what happens @ this point because even though ur on medication you still crave thc for years after and usually u just substitute the craving for food. i started taking drugs quite young and for a while it was just for the effects or the drugs because for ones i found a feeling where i could just switch off and be myself without a care in the world, i suddenly realised it was more about the music enjoyment and the effects of drugs combined ( and dont blame everything on edm as every other fool does when i tell this story )...a freind of mine started to dj when we were about 20-21 years old and we never really thought much more about it at that point because all my money i was getting was going on cheap weed but it wasnt before long we started to express ourselves a little on my freinds decks lol, i started buying records etc but @ the same time i was also quite a heavy weed smoker and of course when u get the euphoric breakdown of a nice northern exposure style prog tune and u combine it with the dopamine high of weed your body gets overloaded with substance and your body becomes use to having that effect....the 2 go hand in handwhich is exceptionally dangerous becuase it gives concentration and breaking that cycle will take years and years....its the hardest strugle you will ever have to go through....^ Yes I have been to Holland many times, as a matter of fact I lived in Brussels for a while in the early 90's and I am familiar not only with Amsterdam but also with the back country. What you are referring to is the red quarter and its surrounding, and the other place that looks even nastier is Rotterdam. But what you also missed to mention is that all those dealers are imigrants from north Africa, most of them unempolyed illegal imigrents. Yes, indeed, in Holland you have more unemployed illegal north Africans than local real dutch. So this criminal and decadent environment you refer to is related to other things than legal matters concerning cancer or criminality. And yes I know of records, Holland doesn't have more cancer patients than Italy, France or other countries, and surely less than Ireland.
Have you ever met real dutch from the back country? The ones that don't hang out in the red quarters where all coffee shops, sex theaters and all the crap is massed? Yes, all junkies of Europe and the world go there for drug seasoning, its part of the ducth strategy to attract tourists. But there are similar nasty neighborhoods without even tourists all around the world like in Napoli, Stockholm, Madrid, Paris where cops don't even dare to set foot in.
But thats not the issue I raised, if societies wana ban what kills and causes cancer, well they should ban alcohol as well coz that surely hurts much more than soft drugs, it destroys the liver, it is addictive and turn people violent which makes it even more dangerous to others: Look at the British hooligans for ex, they killed more than 40 Italians in the Heizel just because they were a bunch of alcoholics under its effect, and this in a sport event! Hooligans are born from alcohol! I have never seen hooligans born from soft drugs, all I saw coming out of that was concerts like woodstock and the hippy days of the 60's...but that was not violence, it didnt kill anyone.
How many people get killed every year on the world roads related directly or indirectly to alcohol? How many young clubbers end up kissing the wall while driving on the way home after clubbing? Is it because of soft drugs or alcohol? Or as a matter of fact ANYTHING taken mixed with alcohol?
Lets not get into too many variables of what and why... you are talking about cancer??! Lets be Macchiavellic a bit here: People are dying of lung cancer and they never touched a cigarette in their lives, pollution obliges
How much do you thing stress kills?? You should check those records and you will be surprised. Stress is the major cause of most body failures...So if you wana live few hundred years, not smoking is not enough
And soft drugs ARE legal in Holland, not de-penalized, LEGAL, up to a certain limit.
But compare apple-to-apple on what kills the most between alcohol and soft drugs, what causes most problems on individual and social level, well I stick to my opinion...
the whole phsycology behind people attitudes to drugs only causes more paranioa but in certain instances where most of the people are on drugs and in one place there seems to be a relaxed mood ( which u touched on previously in a reply.. ) this is because there is less paranioa about being able to openly talk about it to people surrounding you and also you are free to express yourself in a way which only a crowd of people with a similar nature would understand, i think this is why the early edm scene and the drug extacy was so popular in the early 90's....but as usual it was fine untill everyone got there hands on it and started trying to but in on it and of course everything started going down hill from there...this kind of attitude is still present in todays nightclubs but i see a lot of people going downhill and fast simply because now the drug culture is so filthy in this country that 90% of the stuff people are taking are of unknown substance which makes it hard for the medical people to deal with......some people will never learn, its just like when u were young etc you never really considered where or who that substance came from just before u injested it. unfortunately i learned that lesson the hard way.
you cant always blame alcohol for frustration though its what lies undernethe in the persons mind which is the over all consideration that everyone always overlooks...its the exact same thing with drugs....in the uk growing up we were always told to just say no and given the image that if u did that or that you would instantly become this or that ( if u know what i meen by that ) then as you grew up u suddenly seen ur peers take substance that previously u had been told was "devil" stuff and they were fine and of course this lead you to try it urself.....that just say no attitude doesnt work because 9 times out of 10 you seen people drunk falling about the streets when u were growing up and were put off alcohol, personally i hate getting drunk and i think u have been shown a good reason why i dont like to get drunk.
there is also one other problem with drug culture...its the way of thinking it leads people into thinking...for example...a lot of people think that if u can get away with taking drugs then some people take it that one step further and try to get away with other things that are illegal....its one step @ a time towards a downward spiral if your not carefullComment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
^^^^ Red 1 That post supports Shiva's LEGALIZE stance!! Most of the problems wouldn't exist if it was legal, and we are are talking about soft drugs, in particular ecstasy. [or I am] Let's face it alcohol had the same problems during prohibition
When ecstasy was legal in the US there were over 11million doses taken and not one adverse event recorded. !!!
YES!!!!!!My sentiments exactly!!!!!I don't like the twist this thread took, and I am not the type of person to hide behind by my finger, so i'm gona be blunt and strait forward about this:
First, a basic rule of a dj is to know his crowd/audience, and I surely know how to judge my audience coz I grew up on stage:
I am proud of being an afterhours dj, which means I play NASTY & DARK music for a particular audience of the early (and late) mornings. And I can guarantee you that 90% of that audience is not holding a bottle of milk in hand, but a bottle of water or redbull...
Why? Coz it is the "nastiest" yet the "loveliest" music crowd you can find around, they are surely all sky high on drugs and not alcohol. And as for judging a crowd, I escape from alcohol audience where most of the time fights, violence and trouble happen between clubbers. This is the main catch between alcohol crowds and non-alcohol crowds...with the non-alcohol crowd you can be sure that nothing will happen, not even a slap across the face all night long. I am so anti-alcohol person and I believe that all western countries, except Holland, are so hypocrite concerning the drug subject.
Lets take Holland for ex where soft drugs are legal since years now. What do they get for that:
> Less violence, less heavy addicts, less alcoholics, less mafias, less dealers, less AIDS, less public debt, less public deficit etc etc...
> More economic strength and therefore better living standards, more peace, more fun, more tourism, more national income etc etc...
Also, to point out that Holland, unlike the rest of Europe, is the ONLY country that has been facing inflation and cost of living with all easy since the early 90's till today, simply coz soft drugs (and sex- but thats not the issue here) were turned into LEGAL and controlled industries.
Compare the clubs of Holland with the rest of the clubs in the world, compare the dutch crowd and mentality with the rest of the world.....they are far ahead of all other advanced nations in this matter.....coz they are not HYPOCRITE about it!
Now other neighboring nations are starting to learn the lesson: Switzerland, France, Belgium & Spain have officially de-penalized it (not fully legal yet though, but on the way)
Now the US are trying to make a prescription thing, and in California only, when they have to face the most urgent matter since the fall of communism: crystal.
Yes, the most dangerous drug ever to exist, and the easiest to produce, and this issue is unfortunately getting out of hand in the US, almost as much as the brown in Afghanistan or the white in Colombia.
Had they followed the dutch system, this issue would probably have not gotten so far and deeply rooted in society. But no, lets keep on being hypocrite about this...
> The more you forbid people from doing something, the more they will do it and go beyond...that's human nature.
Where do I stand on this: LEGALIZE SOFT DRUGS & BAN ALCOHOL
(09:00am, afterhours in one of the darkest underground clubs of Beirut)
Live and let live!
The 'club spirit' is in the soul. It Never DiesOriginally posted by TheVrkComment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
In regards to the original topic of this thread....the mercuryserver chat room on Soulseek was gone, so I restarted it. Will try to be in there when online. Feel free to pop in and say helloIt's never too late to become the person you always thought you would be.Comment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
^ 100% That's why there are LOVE parades, where millions participate and nobody gets violent...^^^^ Red 1 That post supports Shiva's LEGALIZE stance!! Most of the problems wouldn't exist if it was legal, and we are are talking about soft drugs, in particular ecstasy. [or I am] Let's face it alcohol had the same problems during prohibition When ecstasy was legal in the US there were over 11million doses taken and not one adverse event recorded. !!!
YES!!!!!!My sentiments exactly!!!!!
@ Red: Do you know how frustrated alcoholics are, have you any idea? Do you know what kinda struggle it is to be alcoholic? Having few doobs or popping an e from time to time has never caused frustrations as much as alcohol did, it's not even comparable! Also, you can't generalize the attitude towards soft drugs just by basing it on one person's bad experience he might have had with it...just look around you.
^ Tnx, I will drop by, I just need to download soulseek and learn how to use it...Last edited by Shiva; August 12, 2008, 04:28:52 AM.Comment
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Re: Afterhours online....new trend?
look @ it in a different light...all those drug dealers...when its legalised where are they going to earn there cash ? in all probibilities they will turn to a different type of crime. and lol @ no adverse reactions to xtc recorded, so no 1 had a fit? no 1 10 years down the line went into depresion or something similar...the trouble with xtc and other soft drugs like that is that the damage is like slow death as it takes a while for the actual damage to reach enough potential to do actual damage to the body. legalisation doesnt work it only shifts the prpblem from one thing to another and of course you could then argue that if it was legal then it would be taxed and all those treetments could be paid for by tax and stuff like that....in all honesty...fuck that...the money is better spent...if you can make people happy then there is no need for people to escape life by getting high!!! its better to hit the problem @ ground level rather than deal with it @ the next stage because by the time it gets to the next stage ur in a situation where people have lost life or been mentally scarred......i,ve been there...its not a nice situation to be in and when people know that about you 9 times out of 10 they will use it against you to get what they want...that i cant stress enough.^^^^ Red 1 That post supports Shiva's LEGALIZE stance!! Most of the problems wouldn't exist if it was legal, and we are are talking about soft drugs, in particular ecstasy. [or I am] Let's face it alcohol had the same problems during prohibition When ecstasy was legal in the US there were over 11million doses taken and not one adverse event recorded. !!!
think about what i just said and also the harder side of drugs....it hasnt even been considered in this discusion yet....its something u should think aboutComment
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