Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[Miroslav]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Don't be so mellow dramatic Mirolslav.. I'm pretty sure that the bankers have been making money for hundreds of years and they could have figured this out. See the difference between you and I is you believe that this is almost over and the $700 will turn things around. Well its not. You have bought this lie and it is Paulson and Bush paying out the bankers on the way out the door.

And I'm with cactus or tiddles not sure who said it but why hasn't anyone been held accountable for this??? That's how you know it is fucked up right there. I don't believe anything this aministration has to say. You know it's funny that instead of Bush being the point man on this they chose Paulson instead. Why?? Well the election of course. If this was a real crisis and you had a real president he would be the point man.

First of all, it's spelled "melodramatic".

Second of all, I hear you criticize a lot, as if you knew much about this situation, but I have yet to hear you offer a real solution to this crisis. All you've said is "people should know better" and "Bush should go to jail". That is not a solution to this crisis.

Third, there is something called segregation of duties and powers in the US government. Read up on that and you will understand that Paulson is the "point man" on this topic because it's his job. The president is not supposed to be the "point man" of everything - that's why we have things like the Federal Reserve and the Supreme Court, which are not directly chosen or controlled by any one presidential administration.

Fourth, if you knew about the origins of securitization and the development of the banking world, you would understand that Bush did not "cause" this crisis and that it stretches well beyond the control of any one administration. Bush may be dumb, but blame him for things that are really in his direct control.

Fifth, I don't think this crisis is almost over. I just have an appreciation for how bad it will get if no action is taken.

See, the difference between you and me is that I actually know something about this stuff - I have to, because it's education and my career. It's perfectly fine to have differences of opinion and I'm not the expert on this, but honestly mate you seem way off on some of the fundamentals...I don't mean to be rude, but you do. So it is difficult to have a productive debate. I guess I'll just stop here.

[runningman]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

First of all, it's spelled "melodramatic".

Second of all, I hear you criticize a lot, as if you knew much about this situation, but I have yet to hear you offer a real solution to this crisis. All you've said is "people should know better" and "Bush should go to jail". That is not a solution to this crisis.

Third, there is something called segregation of duties and powers in the US government. Read up on that and you will understand that Paulson is the "point man" on this topic because it's his job. The president is not supposed to be the "point man" of everything - that's why we have things like the Federal Reserve and the Supreme Court, which are not directly chosen or controlled by any one presidential administration.

Fourth, if you knew about the origins of securitization and the development of the banking world, you would understand that Bush did not "cause" this crisis and that it stretches well beyond the control of any one administration. Bush may be dumb, but blame him for things that are really in his direct control.

Fifth, I don't think this crisis is almost over. I just have an appreciation for how bad it will get if no action is taken.

See, the difference between you and me is that I actually know something about this stuff - I have to, because it's education and my career. It's perfectly fine to have differences of opinion and I'm not the expert on this, but honestly mate you seem way off on some of the fundamentals...I don't mean to be rude, but you do. So it is difficult to have a productive debate. I guess I'll just stop here.

I have already stated I failed English so get over it. I'm a math wiz. I love it though you try to insult my intelligence first to discredit me and then go on with your argument. It's a great strategy for winning a debate but it is also so predictable. On a second note John McCain doesn't know shit about economics and he is probably going to be the next president so save me the I went to University so I'm soooo smart babble.

You come up with an excuse for everything. It's not Bush's problem?? Well when you are dealing with a systemic crisis you would figure the president would be the point man. I mean he was on 9/11 and this crisis is far worse then 9/11.

As far as your great knowledge of the situation I'm sorry but I have to disagree. You have said nothing of relevance other then going on with the protocol and defending everything this administration does. If the banks were to fail the only thing that would be different is that the major banks would have to absorb the failing ones. Lehman is obviously a joke since the workers are getting over $2 billion in the form of a bonus and the US government lets this happen. How would things be different if $2 billion was taken away and the Iraq surplus was taken to help pay for this crisis. Anybody with half a brain knows that this bailout is going to completely implode the dollar and gas prices are going to skyrocket. Which is directly going to kill small business(American Dream). So please don't give me that bush methodology that "it would have been much worse if we let them fail". That's horse shit!! You sound like "smoking gun, Mushroom Cloud"


apparently you are pretty alone on the bailout.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/america-versus-financial-elite.html

Miroslav I found something for ya. What is your last name Miroslav?

[Erik Mitchell]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

this crisis is far worse then 9/11.

You surely don't believe this?

[runningman]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Are you serious?? Of course I do.

This crisis can end the USA as we know it. 9/11 was an attack on what we believe but it didn't wreck the country. This will. That is why people need to wake up and take this a little more serious.

Oh Miroslav

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Paulsons_former_firm_to_be_among_0923.html

Go figure.

[toasty]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

This reminds me a lot of Iraq when everyone said we had to go to war to protect ourselves.

I was starting to get this vibe, too. How many times are we going to be asked to do that we would never otherwise go along with because of a purported "emergency?"

We are about to bail out the wealthiest of the wealthy -- people who already got paid -- and plunge our nation into even more debt. Once again, our nation is in peril and the American taxpayer comes to the rescue, and I have a feeling that the execs at these companies we're bailing out are fucking ecstatic. I'm not real sure how you put the toothpaste back into the tube here in terms of profits and bonuses that have already been paid, but it's a pretty bitter pill to be asked to swallow to save the asses of those that get paid yearly bonuses that eclipse what most people make in a lifetime on the basis that, yet again, there's an "emergency."

Maybe there is an emergency, and maybe we do need to do something to prevent a meltdown of the US economy. There should be some way, though, to get restitution from the people that got us into this mess in the first place.

[/rant]

[Lorn]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Yea. Its interesting that the former chairman of Goldman Sach's presided over what is arguably the core problem of this mess, sub-prime mortgages, is now telling us he can also bail us out of the mess......

Wow. He must be really smart.

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

erik this crisis has far more reaching and dramatic impact to the world than 9-11. im not discounting the loss of life, i lost and uncle, a godfather and 3 friends in that terrible morning, but this can lead to something far more dangerous on a global scale. a. hording of basic resources i.e. food+water, b. economic war -- which is always the largest factor leading to military war , from the civil war to ww2. 3. when no one can afford oil at a certain price, you can bet that someone (probaly us) will just go take it. also, factor in the alliances that will be formed between nations ex. us+japan, vs china+russia, saudi's vs iran, brazil vs venezuala, and so forth. it has happned a few times already. i pray we get aroudn this.

[toasty]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

With our economy in crisis, the US Government is scrambling to rescue our banks by purchasing their "distressed assets", i.e., assets that no one else wants to buy from them. We figured that instead of protesting this plan, we'd give regular Americans the same opportunity to sell their bad assets to the government. We need your help and you need the Government's help!

http://www.buymyshitpile.com/

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

@ ^

re-worded for common sense -- people, give the government your shitty assests that are held privately, so EVERYONE has to pay for it in the long run.

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

@ buymyshitpile..

i love on the right side. the declaration of independence for .02 cents. rotting tomatoes for 147K.

people are great.

[Lorn]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

which is always the largest factor leading to military war , from the civil war to ww2. 3. i pray we get aroudn this.

Agreed. This has happened before and appears to be right around the corner again.

Obviously things take time. This is a huge world with huge economies. Nevertheless, the downside always is a quick ride while the upside is slow and steady....just like a rollercoaster.

[Lorn]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

http://www.buymyshitpile.com/

The fact that you think they are worth more than anyone will buy them for is what makes them bad assets.

LOL and bingo!

[Miroslav]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

I have already stated I failed English so get over it. I'm a math wiz. I love it though you try to insult my intelligence first to discredit me and then go on with your argument. It's a great strategy for winning a debate but it is also so predictable.

Ok, here we go again!

You can vilify me however you want. I really don't care. I really didn't want this to devolve into just a character assassination attempt, but I'm sorry - your lack of knowledge on these topics is just painfully apparent to me. My only "strategy" is to be at least somewhat educated about the topics we discuss and offer an opinion based on some rational underlying evidence. It would really help if you took the time to learn at least something about how liquidity works, what velocity of money means, how changes in the money supply affect things, how interest rates are fundamentally determined, how securitization works, etc. before you came back and ran your mouth. It just might enhance your credibility.

On a second note John McCain doesn't know shit about economics and he is probably going to be the next president so save me the I went to University so I'm soooo smart babble.

This counterpoint is unintelligible. What were you suggesting with this - that just because John McCain might be president and happens to share your lack of information of economics and finance, that this is somehow a justification of your viewpoint? That doesn't even make coherent, rational sense.

As far as your great knowledge of the situation I'm sorry but I have to disagree. You have said nothing of relevance other then going on with the protocol and defending everything this administration does. If the banks were to fail the only thing that would be different is that the major banks would have to absorb the failing ones.

Seriously, do you not even get how little sense your suggestion here makes? This is exactly what I'm referring to when I refer to your lack of knowledge on these issues. You can't have the major banks absorb the failing ones because (hello!) it's the major banks that are failing. There are no bigger banks out there to absorb them. And if you take an AIG or some other behemoth and stick it on the shoulders of Goldman, what's going to happen? Goldman will just collapse, too.

A loss can only be absorbed by someone with deep enough pockets to do so. Show me someone who can take almost an accumulated $1 trillion in losses except for perhaps the entire nation of taxpayers (and even then maybe not).

apparently you are pretty alone on the bailout.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/america-versus-financial-elite.html

It doesn't look smart to proclaim me as "pretty alone on the bailout" on the basis of one biased blog entry. I could just as easily spend all day posting biased blog entries about how economists favor some sort of a bailout. But I won't, because I know it's a waste of time. But I will point out that if you actually READ the articles in that blog link you posted (did you even read them?), you might see that most of the quoted economists DO indicate that they favor some sort of government-led intervention right now, they just don't like the specifics of Paulson's plan.

I happen to generally agree with them. I never said that I was supportive of Paulson's particular plan. I think some form of government intervention is sadly necessary - and by the way, so do very many reputable economists (I would wager that most do, but I don't have any hard data). But I think Paulson's plan lacks oversight and gives him too much freedom.

Miroslav I found something for ya. What is your last name Miroslav?

I'm not giving it to you.

This is just devolving into general mud-slinging, and I doubt that you'll take the time to read and comprehend anything I wrote before you reply. So let's just drop it here.

[Lorn]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEyg9syOgmjE&refer=home

This guy Bernanke is on crack. Lets just assume these bad debts will be good....

[k3n3]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Why aren't we as Americans demanding there be hearings before this bloated government "solution" is adopted? My guess is because government (both parties) as a whole played a large part in creating this mess...

We had highly-publicized hearings for "steroids in baseball"; yet I honestly believe we won't this time, because there's way too many politicians at fault on this one...

This time around (when the problem is far more serious), the finger-pointing and denial begins, while we all are left to suffer...

throw them all out !!!