Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

[88Mariner]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...aq-944071.html

thanks for posting this, it is a point i was discussing earlier with some austrian economic theory commrades. Thing is, if we dont' have anything to pay these soldiers with, do you really think they're gonna keep working over there? it is, essentially, a mercenary force: we pay them, and they do work. It's not great work, but still. Go back to the above post about our national security structure being neutralized. Fisk is only concerned with making a point and making a buck in his pocket. I even agree wiht like most of what he says. but he completely discounts the enormity of this potential disaster. if we can't even afford to keep our troops over there....and there's no jobs for them here at home....





one other point; why can we not create an exchange for mortgages and such????? throw into the hands of the market.

[Miroslav]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

looks like we will have a bailout deal this coming week. It's better than it was before, as it includes an oversight process, limits on exec pay, and some safegueards for taxpayers. But it's still obviously expensive. I think this is about as good as this will get for us. It'll probably pass with relative ease.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/Sunday_talks_bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes

Doling the money out: The $700 billion would be disbursed in stages, with $250 billion made available immediately for the Treasury's use.


Limiting executive pay: Curbs will be placed on the compensation of executives at companies that sell mortgage assets to Treasury. Among them, companies that participate will not be able to deduct the salary they pay to executives above $500,000. They also will not be allowed to write new contracts that allow for "golden parachutes" for their top 5 executives if they are fired or the company goes belly up. But the executives' current contracts, which may include golden parachutes, would still stand.


Overseeing the program: An oversight board will be created. The board will include the Federal Reserve chairman, the Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, the Federal Home Finance Agency director and the Housing and Urban Development secretary.

Protecting taxpayers: One provision requires the president to propose legislation to recoup losses from the financial industry if the rescue plan results in net losses to taxpayers five years after the plan is enacted. In addition, Treasury will be allowed to take ownership stakes in participating companies.


Insuring against losses: Treasury must establish an insurance program - with risk-based premiums paid by the industry - to guarantee companies' troubled assets, including mortgage-backed securities, purchased before March 14, 2008. The amount the Treasury would spend to cover losses minus company-paid premiums would come out of the $700 billion the Treasury is allowed to use for the rescue plan.

[runningman]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

well when you have $700 billion up for grabs everybody wants their little piece. that is what is taking the longest figuring out what everybody wants.. 8 months from now we are going to wish we never did this.

[chunky]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Got this today. Is he off the mark or does he have some valid points

The Rich Are Staging a Coup This Morning ...a message from Michael Moore

Friends,
Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as they can on their way out the door.
No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:

"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking for ways to profit from it.

"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.

"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.

"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."

Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.
The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.
And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.
Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?
It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it, it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills. Let me state this simply: If we had had universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.
This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and save us all another half-trillion dollars!
I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country. They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop them ourselves. So stop reading this and do something -- NOW! Here's what you can do immediately:
1. Call or e-mail Senator Obama. Tell him he does not need to be sitting there trying to help prop up Bush and Cheney and the mess they've made. Tell him we know he has the smarts to slow this thing down and figure out what's the best route to take. Tell him the rich have to pay for whatever help is offered. Use the leverage we have now to insist on a moratorium on home foreclosures, to insist on a move to universal health coverage, and tell him that we the people need to be in charge of the economic decisions that affect our lives, not the barons of Wall Street.
2. Take to the streets. Participate in one of the hundreds of quickly-called demonstrations that are taking place all over the country (especially those near Wall Street and DC).
3. Call your Representative in Congress and your Senators. (click here to find their phone numbers). Tell them what you told Senator Obama.
When you screw up in life, there is hell to pay. Each and every one of you reading this knows that basic lesson and has paid the consequences of your actions at some point. In this great democracy, we cannot let there be one set of rules for the vast majority of hard-working citizens, and another set of rules for the elite, who, when they screw up, are handed one more gift on a silver platter. No more! Not again!
Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com
P.S. Having read further the details of this bailout bill, you need to know you are being lied to. They talk about how they will prevent golden parachutes. It says NOTHING about what these executives and fat cats will make in SALARY. According to Rep. Brad Sherman of California, these top managers will continue to receive million-dollar-a-month paychecks under this new bill. There is no direct ownership given to the American people for the money being handed over. Foreign banks and investors will be allowed to receive billion-dollar handouts. A large chunk of this $700 billion is going to be given directly to Chinese and Middle Eastern banks. There is NO guarantee of ever seeing that money again.
P.P.S. From talking to people I know in DC, they say the reason so many Dems are behind this is because Wall Street this weekend put a gun to their heads and said either turn over the $700 billion or the first thing we'll start blowing up are the pension funds and 401(k)s of your middle class constituents. The Dems are scared they may make good on their threat. But this is not the time to back down or act like the typical Democrat we have witnessed for the last eight years. The Dems handed a stolen election over to Bush. The Dems gave Bush the votes he needed to invade a sovereign country. Once they took over Congress in 2007, they refused to pull the plug on the war. And now they have been cowered into being accomplices in the crime of the century. You have to call them now and say "NO!" If we let them do this, just imagine how hard it will be to get anything good done when President Obama is in the White House. THESE DEMOCRATS ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE BACKBONE WE GIVE THEM. CALL CONGRESS NOW.

[runningman]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

It's funny that while the bailout is being digested wallstreet is still down 250 (make that 300 it went down 50 more points while I wrote this) so far today. The US would be better off taking $700 billion and dropping it off in cash to all major cities.

Look at this shit

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown_1146

No consideration at all for the little guy. There should be a nation wide vote on this bailout.

[88Mariner]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

^ the little guy doesn't mean shit at this point anyways. and never has. these financial institutions are the backbone of our economy. If you read my post at the bottom of pg 5, you'll understand why there is an upside to passing this bailout.

to addo the previous post, i dont' know what would have happened to wachovia if we were still far from passing this bill. but i know they would have broken apart.

[Jenks]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Bailout FAIL

206 yes - 227 no

[ddr]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

Bailout FAIL

206 yes - 227 no

wowsers....

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

watch the NASDAQ and S&P500 for the next 2.5 hours.... here we go.....

dow itself may actually die.

[toasty]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

^^ in the midst of a hell of a plunge right now.

[Miroslav]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

It's funny that while the bailout is being digested wallstreet is still down 250 (make that 300 it went down 50 more points while I wrote this) so far today.

I trust now that you see the real reason why the market is so significantly down.

I didn't like the prospect of bailing out the people who screwed us, either. And there are probably better ways of structuring a deal. All I can reiterate is that complete inaction like this will probably significantly increase the probability of acute economic disaster for all of us.

[Jenks]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

The blame game has started. "It's Pelosi's fault"..."It's the republicans fault!" etc.

[88Mariner]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

I trust now that you see the real reason why the market is so significantly down.

I didn't like the prospect of bailing out the people who screwed us, either. And there are probably better ways of structuring a deal. All I can reiterate is that complete inaction will probably significantly increase the probability of acute economic disaster for all of us.

yes. it's going to go to shit really quickly. fuck all of this shit about the bailout 'paying those who made the system a mess'. The point of the bailout is to buy time for everyone to sort thier shit out. And now that it hasn't passed, the time is short.

the psychological impact is going to be huge. the market is based on a positive mindset of confidence...and this is going to absolutely GUT it.

[toasty]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

The blame game has started. "It's Pelosi's fault"..."It's the republicans fault!" etc.

I'd like to see the voting rolls on this one.

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's $700,000,000,000 Bailout!!!

what a lot of people cant realize is that this isnt a BAILOUT. it is an extension of a credit line from the governement. for every dollar they spend, they get it back in one of two ways. a payback of cash or the assests that are distressed, which the gov't is willing to work with. i.e they will buy up defaulting credit, lower the rate, sit on it and work with the debtor.

this is fuckin terrible.and getting worse. i have already been told to stay at work until corporate arrives tonight..