A simple argument against the bailout

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • 88Mariner
    My dick is smaller
    • Nov 2006
    • 7128

    A simple argument against the bailout

    just read this over at volokh.com by prof. ilya somin

    Simple Argument Against the Bailout:
    Economist Steven Landsburg, writing for the Atlantic, presents what seems to me a simple, but powerful argument against the bailout. I don't know enough about finance economics to be sure whether it's right. But I thought that it's at least worth passing along to our readers. Even if it doesn't succeed in proving that no bailout at all was necessary, it at least casts doubt on the need for a plan as massive as the $700 billion monstrosity that the administration is trying to ram through Congress:
    What's clear is that a bunch of financial institutions have made mistakes and lost money. What's unclear is why anyone (other than the owners and managers) should care. People make mistakes and lose money all the time. Restaurants fail, grocery stores fail, gas stations fail. People pick the wrong stocks, they buy the wrong cars, and they marry the wrong spouses without turning to the Treasury for bailouts.
    So what's special about banks? According to what I keep reading, it's that without banks, nobody can borrow, and the economy grinds to a halt.
    Well, let's think about that. Banks don't lend their own money; they lend other people's (their depositors' and their stockholders'). Just because the banks disappear doesn't mean the lenders will. Borrowers will still want to borrow and lenders will still want to lend. The only question is whether they'll be able to find each other.
    That's one reason I feel squeamish about the official pronouncements we've been getting. They tell us bank failures will make it hard to borrow but never that bank failures will make it hard to lend. But every borrower is paired with a lender, so it's odd to state the problem so asymmetrically. This makes me suspect that the official pronouncers have not entirely thought this thing through.
    In the 1930s, a wave of bank failures did make it hard for borrowers and lenders to find each other, and the consequences were drastic. But times have changed in at least two relevant ways. First, the disaster of the 1930s was caused not just by bank failures, but by a 30% contraction of the money supply, which is something today's Fed can easily prevent. Second, as any user of match.com can tell you, the technology for finding partners has improved since then. When a firm wants to raise capital, why can't it just sell bonds over the web? Or issue new stock? Or approach one of the hedge funds that seem to be swimming in cash? Or borrow abroad?
    Ultimately the key question is this: why shouldn't these banks be treated like any other business whose management has displayed bad judgment and lost a great deal of money as a result? Capitalism works because we insist that businesses bear the cost of their own losses, a process that gives them strong incentives to make good decisions and transfers their wealth to others with better judgment if they persist in screwing up anyway (as the big banks have done in this case). Perhaps really big banks are somehow special and deserve bailouts that we would deny to other businesses. But there is a heavy burden of proof on those who claim that this alleged specialness really exists and that it justifies hundreds of billions of dollars in public expenditures, unchecked executive power, and unprecedented control of the economy by the federal government. Like Landsburg, I am skeptical that the burden has been met.
    link to the full article on The Atlantic
    you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

    it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

    Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

    ----PEACE-----
  • 88Mariner
    My dick is smaller
    • Nov 2006
    • 7128

    #2
    Re: A simple argument against the bailout

    I'm suprised nobody has responded to this.

    So here's a follow-up: i'm becoming more skeptical about the scare-tactics that have been used at this point in time. That Paulson and others are saying this is the only way to sort things out makes me wonder: could this amount to a financial coup under the guise of a crisis?

    I think back to last friday when, just after the market had tanked, trading skyrocketed...cui bono?
    you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

    it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

    Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

    ----PEACE-----

    Comment

    • 88Mariner
      My dick is smaller
      • Nov 2006
      • 7128

      #3
      Re: A simple argument against the bailout

      THIS: IS: MONEY:

      [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32ds[/YOUTUBE]

      ---this is beginning to sound a LOT like the way things were when the administration tried to sell us on the Iraq War.

      FUCK, this is getting interesting
      you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

      it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

      Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

      ----PEACE-----

      Comment

      • Lorn
        Looking for a title!
        • Sep 2004
        • 5826

        #4
        Re: A simple argument against the bailout

        Originally posted by 88Mariner
        I'm suprised nobody has responded to this.

        So here's a follow-up: i'm becoming more skeptical about the scare-tactics that have been used at this point in time. That Paulson and others are saying this is the only way to sort things out makes me wonder: could this amount to a financial coup under the guise of a crisis?

        I think back to last friday when, just after the market had tanked, trading skyrocketed...cui bono?

        Yea, spot on. The FED is making a huge power grab here. I somehow remember somebody saying not too long ago that the Iraq War – excuse me, Operation Iraqi Freedom – would cost $2 billion (and would be over in 6 months!)......well, don't believe these frellers either.

        Comment

        • Miroslav
          WHOA I can change this!1!
          • Apr 2006
          • 4122

          #5
          Re: A simple argument against the bailout

          I'll bite (of course).

          I'm a bit surprised that as an economist this guy seems to mostly overlook the entire basic recessionary cycle in his reasoning. I think the problem is not so much that borrowers and lenders won't be able to find each other - although that problem is bad enough. Think about the volumes of borrowing and lending that efficiently go on in markets every day, aided by banks and other financial intermediaries. Consumer loans? Credit cards? Commercial paper markets? Does this guy really think that all these guys are going to find each other on Ebay? Come on... Financial intermediaries exist for a reason, and I suspect the pools of capital financial available will not be nearly as deep without them. This is part of the reason why up until now we have had much deeper pools of capital and more efficient allocation thereof than most other countries (and they have the internet, too).

          But the bigger issue he's missing is what happens when things get so bad that the borrowers don't want to/can't borrow (or spend) and the lenders don't want/can't to lend? Because that is probably the real driving force that causes liquidity to dry up. As the casualties mount, lenders and borrowers panic and lose faith in the markets. They hunker down and start hoarding their precious dollars for fear of losing every last cent. So do lenders going to do? Probably drastically restrict lending - and it's already happening. So then what do the borrowers do? They stop consuming and borrowing/investing. More businesses go under, production falls, and unemployment swells...and even fewer lenders lend and even fewer borrowers borrow/consume. It's a vicious cycle, and it's not so easy to break.

          I'm not saying this as support for Paulson's bailout. I just don't find this guy's logic particularly convincing.
          mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

          Comment

          • Lorn
            Looking for a title!
            • Sep 2004
            • 5826

            #6
            Re: A simple argument against the bailout

            Originally posted by Miroslav

            But the bigger issue he's missing is what happens when things get so bad that the borrowers don't want to/can't borrow (or spend) and the lenders don't want/can't to lend? Because that is probably the real driving force that causes liquidity to dry up. As the casualties mount, lenders and borrowers panic and they lose faith in the markets. So what are lenders going to do? Probably drastically restrict lending - and it's already happening. So then what happens? More businesses go under and consumers stop spending. And as the ranks of the unemployed swell, so does the loss in consumption and production. It's a vicious cycle, and it's not so easy to break.

            I'm not saying this as support for Paulson's bailout. I just don't find this guy's logic convincing.
            Yes, agreed. This is too simple to really take seriously. But you bring up something that should be discussed. Liquidity. Liquidity isn't a consequence of what you are describing above, its the cause. We have had an over abundance of liquidity, and today more than ever. Up until now, consumers, businesses and banks all happily took as much of this liquidity they could stuff in their pockets. The biggest asset being used to back this liquidity, (which to use another term, borrowing) was/is real estate. Well we all know what is happening in real estate.

            Hence peoples ability to take on more liquidity has been severely hampered due to declining real estate prices. In fact, people could never of afforded the credit binge that took place if real estate values hadn't gone through a tremendous bull market run.

            One might say this is a chicken/egg conversation, was it real estate values that came first causing the gush of credit to be issued or was it the cheap credit Greenspan made available to everyone that caused real estate values to sore. Whatever ones thoughts are doesn't really matter, we are where we are.

            I think this is the big issue that divides the two camps of economic theory out there. Whether liquidity (credit) is the ultimate answer to our problems.

            Comment

            • Miroslav
              WHOA I can change this!1!
              • Apr 2006
              • 4122

              #7
              Re: A simple argument against the bailout

              Originally posted by Lorn
              Yes, agreed. This is too simple to really take seriously. But you bring up something that should be discussed. Liquidity. Liquidity isn't a consequence of what you are describing above, its the cause. We have had an over abundance of liquidity, and today more than ever. Up until now, consumers, businesses and banks all happily took as much of this liquidity they could stuff in their pockets. The biggest asset being used to back this liquidity, (which to use another term, borrowing) was/is real estate. Well we all know what is happening in real estate.

              Hence peoples ability to take on more liquidity has been severely hampered due to declining real estate prices. In fact, people could never of afforded the credit binge that took place if real estate values hadn't gone through a tremendous bull market run.

              One might say this is a chicken/egg conversation, was it real estate values that came first causing the gush of credit to be issued or was it the cheap credit Greenspan made available to everyone that caused real estate values to sore. Whatever ones thoughts are doesn't really matter, we are where we are.

              I think this is the big issue that divides the two camps of economic theory out there. Whether liquidity (credit) is the ultimate answer to our problems.
              Well said, Lorn. I take your point on the liquidity, and I don't at all disagree - I do think that conditions under Greenspan's time made liquidity far too easy and strongly contributed to the bubble we're in. I guess the way I see now it is.... well, an overabundance of liquidity back then was definitely a problem, but now it is going to swing back the other way and lead to a drastic underabundance of liquidity. That underabundance is a perfectly natural response to a system that, as you aptly put it, had too much liquidity in it - it's simply the market's way of recalibrating itself back to an level that is in line with fundamental economic reality. And it definitely needs to happen. But if it happens really fast and really drastically, boy can it be painful on everybody... Bailout or not, we are all going to suffer for the sins of a few and it's going to come out of our pocket one way or another.

              So to me, the next big question is: how fast does it happen? And as a follow-up: what are the pros/cons of it happening a lot faster vs. a lot slower?
              mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

              Comment

              Working...