Christianism Personified

[sammwalk]

Re: Christianism Personified

if, hypothetically, muslims were not violent people at all, but they passed laws that follow thier strict codes, and further, that such strict adherence is required, and, that deviation from these laws would result in harsh pursuit and punishment of such described perpetrators...

...would it still be muslims who are evil for passing such laws because they have the numbers and mindset to do so, or would this make the government evil as a tool used to effect such an end? That is to ask, which is worse: a suicide bomb killing a few, or totalitarian laws that punish religious minorities? "

I don't like to use "evil"...it's not a specific term. It could mean anything. It presumes some sort of objectivity. Since we are comparing two religions, our own arguments can't have any judgments that appeal to any type of god, which is the only source of such objectivity.

In order for this to bring and weight to bear on the radical Christian/Islamic parallel argument we're having here, we have to assume that there is a significant percentage of free thinkers in this hypothetical society whose freedoms are eliminated or severely threatened by the religious law.

To answer the first part of your question, I think it's a bit of a chicken/egg scenario. The religious majority establishes a religious government which in turn reinforces the religious majority. Those who lie at the outside of this cycle, for whatever reason, are going to feel that the government is evil, yes. But, given that might makes right, there's no true right or wrong here; just a power struggle. It is up to the minority to affect change by labeling the religious government "evil" in order to control it.

The suicide bombing, on the other hand, is a reaction to inter-religious and inter-cultural friction (to put it mildly). So I'm not sure what type of comparison you're trying to make.

I think that Christians are very close to becoming like their Islamic cousins, in that their extreme irrationality, paranoia, and devotion will soon lead them to violence. We've got to remember that terrorism is not an Islamic problem, it is not even a religious problem. It is an economic problem. And we have seriously remote places in this wide country of ours where this type of extremism is becoming more and more common.

[DIDI]

Re: Christianism Personified

I just want to smash that fat fucking women's face in!!! A pretty perfect example of why I am an atheist!!

[Miroslav]

Re: Christianism Personified

news flash to you guys... crazy wackjob hicks are not a new phenomenon. They've always been out there, they always will be out there. It's a fact of life. Don't try to extrapolate large-scale trends on the basis of a small sample size of inbreds.

[88Mariner]

Re: Christianism Personified

wow. what an incredibly thoughtful answer. I would rep you but i keep getting a prompt that says I can't give out any more just yet.

I'm interested on how terrorism is an economic problem, not that I disagree with you, but I was hoping to find out more what you think on that.

Also, I guess to clarify my own post, I'm not really suggesting that christianity is a terroristic threat, at least not in modern times. However, when government enforces its laws, they do so using physical force; if laws are created to push religious doctrinal adherence by threat of physical force against minority factions, does this necessarly mean that, even though christians are generally unarmed non-suicide-bombing people, are they nonetheless culpable in the use of force (though they themselves do not use force). ...

[88Mariner]

Re: Christianism Personified

DIDI, to add to Miroslav's comments, don't you have personal, affirmative reasons as to why you're an atheist? rather than pointing at particular behaviour and saying, "that's why i'm not that"? No need to comment, just a thought.

Miro: not extrapolating, but I think reasonable people like yourself tend to underestimate the voting power of this block; anecdotally, why else would Sarah Palin have been chosen but for the necessity of gathering in fundamentalist voters which, as I think you agree, has put this country at great risk?

[i!!ustrious]

Re: Christianism Personified

^^ win. nice one miro.

/ broad thoughts

i put no stock in religion tho, they are great tools yes, but not the answer imo. i think religions and politics will not solve the problems of the world ultimately, they are too attached to categorization, names and forms -- all of which are a limitation don't you think? in terms of knowing and bettering our selves.

imo. all 'evil' is, is just relative imperfection and lag, just like 'good' is just relative perfection and acceleration. there is no such thing as absolute perfection. cheers to divinity and endless infinitude. ignorance and selfishness are the root of retardation. all religion is, is but the expressions of the inner truths.

christianity and islam have some serious changes ahead of them forreal.

[DIDI]

Re: Christianism Personified

news flash to you guys... crazy wackjob hicks are not a new phenomenon. They've always been out there, they always will be out there. It's a fact of life. Don't try to extrapolate large-scale trends on the basis of a small sample size of inbreds.

I'm not trying to extrapolate , but still want to smash her face in !

[88Mariner]

Re: Christianism Personified

^ right, yeah. I don't mean to use evil in its literal sense, I just didn't know what else to put instead. I think there is very little evil in the world, but there is a significant amount of backwardsness.

[BabyMatty4Block]

Re: Christianism Personified

Hahahaha to quote the late George Carlin - "Can you imagine actually having to FUCK this woman???"

[sammwalk]

Re: Christianism Personified

news flash to you guys... crazy wackjob hicks are not a new phenomenon. They've always been out there, they always will be out there. It's a fact of life. Don't try to extrapolate large-scale trends on the basis of a small sample size of inbreds.

The price of liberty is vigilance. We need to continually expose these religious extremists and condemn them. Much like once you have cancer, you have to keep going back to the doctor to get it checked, forever.

wow. what an incredibly thoughtful answer. I would rep you but i keep getting a prompt that says I can't give out any more just yet.

I'm interested on how terrorism is an economic problem, not that I disagree with you, but I was hoping to find out more what you think on that.

The argument here is, basically people who consider themselves well off do not blow things up. Obviously it's more complicated than that, but that's the idea.

People who have jobs have something to do something other than sit around and blame the US for their plight. If people have money, they are less likely to resort to criminal or extreme activities. They are able to support their families. Deep down people want peace, but peace is essentially impossible without prosperity (or at least the opportunity for prosperity).

Now, some might say, wait, some terrorists are educated and well off (i.e., Bin Laden). However, he wouldn't be able to develop support for his scheme (indeed, wouldn't be motivated to have started it in the first place) if there weren't economic problems in Saudi Arabia and throughout the Middle East.

The creation of Al Qaeda was fueled by, specifically, the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after Gulf War I, and more generally, the disparity in wealth and reinforcement of the Saudi regime caused by the oil industry. Therefore, one could even say it's even the US's economy that led to 9/11. Again, it's more complicated than that, but that pretty much sums it up.

Also, I guess to clarify my own post, I'm not really suggesting that christianity is a terroristic threat, at least not in modern times. However, when government enforces its laws, they do so using physical force; if laws are created to push religious doctrinal adherence by threat of physical force against minority factions, does this necessarly mean that, even though christians are generally unarmed non-suicide-bombing people, are they nonetheless culpable in the use of force (though they themselves do not use force). ...

I'll have to get back to you on this one.

[thesightless]

Re: Christianism Personified

I just want to smash that fat fucking women's face in!!! A pretty perfect example of why I am an atheist!!

there actually is no such thing as athiesm, simply because you do believe in a certain idea.(no god) agnostic is what ya are.(choose to ignore religion)

[DIDI]

Re: Christianism Personified

^^^^No wonder you have an ulcer you will fight anything

Nup atheist The dictionary says " the theory or belief that God does not exist". and that's definitely me

[88Mariner]

Re: Christianism Personified

^do you often define yourself on what you don't believe in?

are you also an a-fairyist? An a-easterbunny? I think that's what he's trying to say:

it starts off the proposition that God does exist, without proving it.

[Miroslav]

Re: Christianism Personified

The dictionary says " the theory or belief that God does not exist". and that's definitely me

She believes in Christianity; you believe in atheism. At the end of the day, it's still a belief you can't prove - i.e., it requires some degree of faith on your part. Atheists and theists have more in common than one might initially think..

I'd also say: let's be careful about treating this woman as a good proxy by which to condemn all religious people...lest we ironically become as bad as those that we criticize.

Miro: not extrapolating, but I think reasonable people like yourself tend to underestimate the voting power of this block; anecdotally, why else would Sarah Palin have been chosen but for the necessity of gathering in fundamentalist voters which, as I think you agree, has put this country at great risk?

You raise a good point...no denying that it is distressing that people like this have a hand in our policy. And yes, I'd agree that they have done a fair amount of damage. As I mentioned in some other thread recently (can't even remember which one): representative democracy is imperfect and it sucks - and this is case in point. The only problem is that every other system, when taken on the whole, arguably sucks just as much if not more. So I guess I try to walk some sort of a line between ignoring the craziest of these people when they're just marginally impactful vs. trying to stop them when they take things too far... Not sure that there will ever be any clean solution to this.

[DIDI]

Re: Christianism Personified

^^^Which still makes me an atheist ! I am not trying to prove anything ! I'm not looking to any God to look after me !

Do you often define yourself on what you don't believe in?

In this case I certainly do, and if some one starts telling me it's the easter bunnies "will" that determines my life I might do there as well !! In the name of the Easter Bunny What a silly argument that was.

Some comedian has done a sketch on this somewhere

Well at least this has got me over my violent urges