Believers in Barack

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  • cosmo
    Gold Gabber
    • Jun 2004
    • 583

    Believers in Barack

    Believers in Obama
    Thomas Sowell
    Monday, October 20, 2008


    Telling a friend that the love of his life is a phony and dangerous is not likely to get him to change his mind. But it may cost you a friend.


    It is much the same story with true believers in Barack Obama. They have made up their minds and not only don't want to be confused by the facts, they resent being told the facts.


    An e-mail from a reader mentioned trying to tell his sister why he was voting against Obama but, when he tried to argue some facts, she cut him short: "You don't like him and I do!" she said. End of discussion.


    When one thinks of all the men who have put their lives on the line in battle to defend and preserve this country, it is especially painful to think that there are people living in the safety and comfort of civilian life who cannot be bothered to find out the facts about candidates before voting to put the fate of this nation, and of generations yet to come, in the hands of someone chosen because they like his words or style.

    Of the four people running for President and Vice President on the Republican and Democratic tickets, the one we know the least about is the one leading in the polls-- Barack Obama.


    Some of Senator Obama's most fervent supporters could not tell you what he has actually done on such issues as crime, education, or financial institutions like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, much less what he plans to do to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear nation supplying nuclear weapons to the international terrorist networks that it has supplied with other weapons.

    The magic word "change" makes specifics unnecessary. If things are going bad, some think that what is needed is blank-check "change."


    But history shows any number of countries in crises worse than ours, where "change" turned problems into catastrophes.

    In czarist Russia, for example, the economy was worse than ours is today and the First World War was going far worse for the Russians than anything we have faced in Iraq. Moreover, Russians had nothing like the rights of Americans today. So they went for "change."


    That "change" brought on a totalitarian regime that made the czars' despotism look like child's play. The Communists killed more people in one year than the czars killed in more than 90 years, not counting the millions who died in a government-created famine in the 1930s.


    Other despotic regimes in China, Cuba, and Iran were similarly replaced by people who promised "change" that turned out to be even worse than what went before.


    Yet many today seem to assume that if things are bad, "change" will make them better. Specifics don't interest them nearly as much as inspiring rhetoric and a confident style. But many 20th century leaders with inspiring rhetoric and great self-confidence led their followers or their countries into utter disasters.


    These ranged from Jim Jones who led hundreds to their deaths in Jonestown to Hitler and Mao who led millions to their deaths.


    What specifics do we know about Barack Obama's track record that might give us some clue as to what kinds of "changes" to expect if he is elected?

    We know that he opposed the practice of putting violent young felons on trial as adults. We know that he was against a law forbidding physicians to kill a baby that was born alive despite an attempt to abort it.


    We know that Obama opposed attempts to put stricter regulations on Fannie Mae-- and that he was the second largest recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae. We know that this very year his campaign sought the advice of disgraced former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines.

    Fannie Mae and Raines were at the heart of "the mess in Washington" that Barack Obama claims he is going to clean up under the banner of "change."

    The public has been told very little about what this man with the wonderful rhetoric has actually done. What we know is enough to make us wonder about what we don't know. Or it ought to. For the true believers-- which includes many in the media-- it is just a question of whether you like him or not.
  • Miroslav
    WHOA I can change this!1!
    • Apr 2006
    • 4122

    #2
    Re: Believers in Barack

    When one thinks of all the men who have put their lives on the line in battle to defend and preserve this country, it is especially painful to think that there are people living in the safety and comfort of civilian life who cannot be bothered to find out the facts about candidates before voting to put the fate of this nation, and of generations yet to come, in the hands of someone chosen because they like his words or style.
    Oh please...Mr. Sowell can bite me.


    As if the supporters for McCain, Palin, or any other candidate in US history were any better. Many of Palin's supporters don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Let's not kid ourselves: most people have the same understanding of economics, health care, tax systems, international trade, etc. as a shrimp examining a nuclear submarine. Regardless of who they vote for. Singling out Obama for this whole thing is stupid.
    mixes: www.waxdj.com/miroslav

    Comment

    • 88Mariner
      My dick is smaller
      • Nov 2006
      • 7128

      #3
      Re: Believers in Barack

      Sowell, to me, is a genius. I own several of his books on economics. HOWEVER, the tendency of such intelligent people to not see that two trees are within the same philosophical forest is personally frustrating. To suggest that by not knowing enough about Obama makes McCain a more viable candidate is totally absurd; at worst, Obama could turn into McCain on frivolous spending that brings no substantive return to American citizens.
      you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

      it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

      Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

      ----PEACE-----

      Comment

      • thesightless
        Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
        • Jun 2004
        • 13567

        #4
        Re: Believers in Barack

        most of that article is rubbish(barak will not be executing people who dont follow his ideas) but......

        It is much the same story with true believers in Barack Obama. They have made up their minds and not only don't want to be confused by the facts, they resent being told the facts.
        The magic word "change" makes specifics unnecessary. If things are going bad, some think that what is needed is blank-check "change."
        BINGO>
        your life is an occasion, rise to it.

        Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
        download that. deep shit listed there

        my dick is its own superhero.

        Comment

        • 88Mariner
          My dick is smaller
          • Nov 2006
          • 7128

          #5
          Re: Believers in Barack

          ^i disagreeon the first quote: I say this because first Sowell says we don't know who Obama really is, and then follows by speculating on what Obama 'could' do; and second, presenting speculative facts (or perhaps actual facts) to a person who supports Obama who subsequently does not listen to them means nothing about why they are supporting Obama. What I mean is, aside from assuming that all voters are rational, that Sowell is suggesting that the presentation of the facts to an Obama supporter will changer his or her mind about Obama; For me at least, in a race between only Obama and McCain, there are few facts about Obama that could convince me to change my mind and vote for McCain, particularly after my mind was already made up. The essence of this has been proven by scientific study: people tend to believe the initial lie even after they are presented with the facts. Case in point, my own father sent me an e-mail about Michelle Obama's lobster dinner at a hotel in Philly; I sent him a response saying she was in Indiana on the date of that ticket, and he simply argued that it wasn't true, even after I sent him links on the NyPost retractions on that coverage. Furthermore, and I think this follows for most other people supporting Obama, the 'facts' presented to them are trivial and they aren't of any substance to be used in favor of McCain, a proposition one can read between the lines of Sowell's piece. Why Sowell isn't a libertarian, i'm not so sure. And while he's spot on with economics, I still wonder why he writes for CapMag, a periodical against social conservatism.

          /rant.
          you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

          it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

          Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

          ----PEACE-----

          Comment

          • sammwalk
            Gold Gabber
            • Jun 2004
            • 769

            #6
            Re: Believers in Barack

            We know that he was against a law forbidding physicians to kill a baby that was born alive despite an attempt to abort it.
            This quote relieves the entire article of credibility.

            Comment

            • thesightless
              Someone will marry me. Hell Yeah!
              • Jun 2004
              • 13567

              #7
              Re: Believers in Barack

              What I mean is, aside from assuming that all voters are rational,
              therein lies the flaw. again, let me hammer it in

              2000-- al gore vs gw2
              2004-- john kerry vs g2
              2008-- barak obama(who) vs mccain.

              america lost its rationality a long long time ago. you read about the period when parades were thrown for astronauts, scientists, and nobel winners were famous. now, we have candlelight vigils for travis barker because he had an accident. britney spears is more well known than the scientists at OPT who may very well find a way to give us renewable energy forever. gah......
              your life is an occasion, rise to it.

              Join My Chant. new mix. april 09. dirty fuck house.
              download that. deep shit listed there

              my dick is its own superhero.

              Comment

              • cosmo
                Gold Gabber
                • Jun 2004
                • 583

                #8
                Re: Believers in Barack

                Originally posted by 88Mariner
                Sowell, to me, is a genius. I own several of his books on economics. HOWEVER, the tendency of such intelligent people to not see that two trees are within the same philosophical forest is personally frustrating. To suggest that by not knowing enough about Obama makes McCain a more viable candidate is totally absurd; at worst, Obama could turn into McCain on frivolous spending that brings no substantive return to American citizens.

                Do you have applied economics? Basic economics? I have them all, from A Conflict of Visions, to Black Rednecks and White liberals. The Vision of the Anointed was great - when he dissected optional reality vs ordinary human nature, and his book The Quest for Cosmic Justice was brilliant as well, albeit a short book. Race and Culture is a wealth of information, and Affirmative Action Around the World was great too. After reading that book, one wonders why politicians want to act as saviors and keep using government intervention in order to equalize the disparities of society.

                Comment

                • 88Mariner
                  My dick is smaller
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 7128

                  #9
                  Re: Believers in Barack

                  Basic & Applied. I wouldn't spend my money on other works of his
                  you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                  it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                  Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                  ----PEACE-----

                  Comment

                  • DIDI
                    Aussie Pest
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 16845

                    #10
                    Re: Believers in Barack

                    The joke is you could have have inserted any of the candidates names and a lot of that would still have worked.
                    Originally posted by TheVrk
                    it IS incredible isn't it??
                    STILL pumpin out great set after great set...never cheesed out, never sold out, never lost his touch..
                    Simply does not get any better than Hernan
                    The 'club spirit' is in the soul. It Never Dies

                    Comment

                    • 88Mariner
                      My dick is smaller
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 7128

                      #11
                      Re: Believers in Barack

                      I could have inserted DIDI into it and it would have worked.


                      heh.
                      you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                      it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                      Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                      ----PEACE-----

                      Comment

                      • cosmo
                        Gold Gabber
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 583

                        #12
                        Re: Believers in Barack

                        Originally posted by 88Mariner
                        Basic & Applied. I wouldn't spend my money on other works of his

                        Okay so your purchases of his books went from several, down to two. It's absurd to call his philosophical books unworthy of spending your money on.

                        Go to Amazon and read the reviews to the books that I've mentioned. He's one of the great thinkers of our time....

                        Comment

                        • cosmo
                          Gold Gabber
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 583

                          #13
                          Re: Believers in Barack

                          Record Versus Rhetoric
                          Thomas Sowell
                          Friday, October 17, 2008




                          Apparently there is something about Sarah Palin that causes some people to think of her as either the best of candidates or the worst of candidates. She draws enthusiastic crowds and provokes visceral hostility in the media.

                          The issue that is raised most often is her relative lack of experience and the fact that she would be "a heartbeat away from the presidency" if Senator John McCain were elected. But Barack Obama has even less experience-- none in an executive capacity-- and his would itself be the heartbeat of the presidency if he were elected.

                          Sarah Palin's record is on the record, while whole years of Barack Obama's life are engulfed in fog, and he has had to explain away one after another of the astounding and vile people he has not merely "associated" with but has had political alliances with, and to whom he has directed the taxpayers' money and other money.

                          Sarah Palin has had executive experience-- and the White House is the executive branch of government. We don't have to judge her by her rhetoric because she has a record.

                          We don't know what Barack Obama will actually do because he has actually done very little for which he was personally accountable. Even as a state legislator, he voted "present" innumerable times instead of taking a stand one way or the other on tough issues.

                          "Clean up the mess in Washington"? He was part of the mess in Chicago and lined up with the Daley machine against reformers.

                          He is also part of the mess in Washington, not only with numerous earmarks, but also as the Senate's second largest recipient of money from Fannie Mae, and someone whose campaign has this year sought the advice of disgraced former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines, who was at the heart of the subprime crisis.

                          Why then the enthusiasm for Obama and the hostility to Sarah Palin in the media?
                          One reason of course is that Senator Obama is ideologically much closer to the views of the media than is Governor Palin. But there is more than that. There are other conservative politicians who do not evoke such anger, spite and hate.

                          Sarah Palin is the one real outsider among the four candidates for the presidency and vice-presidency on the Republican and Democratic tickets. Her whole career has been spent outside the Washington Beltway.

                          More than that, her whole life has been outside the realm familiar to the intelligentsia of the media. She didn't go to the big-name colleges and imbibe the heady atmosphere that leaves so many feeling that they are special folks. She doesn't talk the way they talk or think the way they think.

                          Worse yet, from the media's perspective, Sarah Palin does not seek their Good Housekeeping seal of approval.

                          Much is made of Senator Joe Biden's "experience." But Frederick the Great said that experience matters only when valid conclusions are drawn from it.

                          Senator Biden's "experience" has been a long history of being on the wrong side of issue after issue in foreign policy. He was one of those Senators who voted to pull the plug on financial aid to South Vietnam, which was still defending itself from Communist invaders after the pullout of American troops.

                          Biden opposed Ronald Reagan's military buildup that helped win the Cold War. He opposed the surge in Iraq last year.

                          Sarah Palin will not be ready to become President of the United States on the first day that she and John McCain take office. Nobody is.

                          But being Vice President is a job that can allow a lot of time for studying, and everything about Governor Palin's career says that she is a bright gal with her head on straight. The country needs that far more than it needs people with glib answers to media "gotcha" questions.

                          Whatever the shortcomings of John McCain and Sarah Palin, they are people whose values are the values of this nation, whose loyalty and dedication to this country's fundamental institutions are beyond question because they have not spent decades working with people who hate America. Nor are they people whose judgments have been proved wrong consistently during decades of Beltway "experience."

                          Comment

                          • cosmo
                            Gold Gabber
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 583

                            #14
                            Re: Believers in Barack

                            Originally posted by sammwalk
                            This quote relieves the entire article of credibility.

                            He's correct in his assertion...

                            Comment

                            • 88Mariner
                              My dick is smaller
                              • Nov 2006
                              • 7128

                              #15
                              Re: Believers in Barack

                              It's absurd to call his philosophical books 'unworthy of spending money towards"? Whataver. Objectively speaking, there are limits to his intelligence. Seriously, he's actually saying Sarah Palin is worthy of being a president. That alone is like Thomas Sowell saying, "Yeah, I agree with Alan Keyes on pretty much everything." Another case in point, over on Culture11 today.

                              "Thomas Sowell’s got a book I’m told is quite worth reading called Knowledge and Decisions. I’m afraid his latest remarks on Obama threaten to make both impossible — scrambling the first so badly that the second are twisted into crippling knots. Unless, of course, what we know is that the sky is falling and what we decide to do is freak out.
                              "There is such a thing as a point of no return," Sowell says. If Obama wins the White House and Democrats expand their majorities in the House and Senate, they will intervene in the economy and redistribute wealth. Yet their economic policies "will pale by comparison to what they will do in permitting countries to acquire nuclear weapons and turn them over to terrorists. Once that happens, we’re at the point of no return. The next generation will live under that threat as far out as the eye can see."
                              "The…vision [of Barack Obama] is really an elitist vision," Sowell explains. "This man [Obama] really does believe that he can change the world. And people like that are infinitely more dangerous than mere crooked politicians."

                              Please, folks, can we exercise the discipline necessary to criticize Barack Obama coherently? What will Obama do to ‘permit’ nuclear proliferation that, say, Bush in his second term has not? Take North Korea off the bad guy list? Been there, done that. How is it that Obama — a guy interested in attacking Pakistan, whose veep knows he’ll be tested deliberately with an early crisis — will be inclined to sit in the Oval Office, hands folded, when Middle East crises do come around the pike? What has led us to conclude that Obama isn’t interested in preventing a world in which nuclear terrorism is a serious daily threat? I can think of only one possible answer: he wants to negotiate with Iran. Now there are all sorts of arguments as to why someone who thinks we should talk to Iran isn’t interested in making sure terrorists get the bomb. But I’m not going to waste any breath on them, because Sowell’s contention is really that Obama’s worldview makes him disinterested in discharging his constitutional duty to protect the United States from its enemies. Rather than preventing nuclear terrorism, Obama aims to "change the world," to eliminate conflict through the power of words and feelings, or something. That’s why he’s supposedly "infinitely more dangerous" than, say, Nixon or Johnson.
                              But Obama is clearly in favor of both negotiation and international intervention. It seems obvious to me that he foretells a more interventionist four years than Bush’s second term. And his foreign policy advisors do not truck in the same high-flown rhetoric that Obama deploys to draw crowds. Somewhere in all of Sowell’s panicky prose, there’s a real argument in there about the irresponsiblity of letting Iran get the bomb. That’s an issue worth debating like normal human beings. (And there’s more than one way to skin a cat even there.) But Sowell loses whatever advantage he might hope to have on that ground by phrasing his panic in rhetoric as exaggerated and reckless as any Obama’s offered. People who think the world can be changed in some way are infinitely more dangerous than degenerate lawbreakers in office? Infinitely? Why not infinity-plus-one more dangerous? Why not a gazillion times more dangerous? It’s childish. And since when are elitist visions visions of world-transformation, or visions of world-transformation elitist? In the interest of wild rhetorical punchiness, Sowell conflates elitist visions with vanguard visions. If you want to argue that Obama considers himself part of a vanguard that can reinvent the world, have at it, but let’s not ruin the word elite for all time by turning it into a categorical clearinghouse for every freak in the book. Socrates had an elitist vision. Alexander Hamilton and James Madison had elitist visions. George H.W. Bush had an elitist vision. William F. Buckley had an elitist vision. Benjamin Disraeli had an elitist vision. Marcus Aurelius had an elitist vision. Counter-elitist visions can be great, too, of course, but Sowell is caught in the grip of fear, in which the stakes appear to be so high that only the least articulate of screams will do.
                              That, really, is what I worry about most with stuff like this. The defense of Sowell’s language will go: "you criticize him for being too upset and speaking in imprecise terms, while you really should be criticizing Obama for wanting to destroy America!" First of all, if Obama really wants to destroy America, we had better screw our heads on a bit more firmly to meet the challenge. Secondly, I’m going to need a few more persuasive arguments before I agree that Obama wants to destroy America — by changing the world — because he’s an elitist. That doesn’t mean I don’t strongly oppose Obama on the issues. I do. That doesn’t mean I’m not concerned about the kind of foreign policy he might preside over. I am. It does mean I suspect Obama cares about nuclear terrorism. And it does mean that, whatever his administration might look like in practice, I’m unsure it’ll be infinitely more dangerous than the rule of absolutely corrupted leaders possessed of absolute power. And finally it means that there had better be a better way to attack Obama than by attacking his elitism — especially if that kind of attack is the stock in trade of the right’s own elites. A credible opposition to an Obama presidency simply cannot and will not operate at Sowell’s level of spasmodic fury. If you think life will be bad with Obama in charge, think of how bad it will be if the only public alternative to his way of doing things is a squall of barely articulate madness. So, dear partisans:
                              * Zero in on the way a hugely Democratic congress would tend to dominate Obama’s mild, pragmatic temperament with a dogmatic, impatient, inflexible one;
                              * Insist, like Reagan, that Obama has America’s best interests at heart but is, alas, misguided about how to accomplish them;
                              * Offer tangible proof that elites and non-elites can come together without hypocritically demonizing elitism;
                              * Come up with a coherent explanation of how Obama could be both too passive and too aggressive in international affairs;
                              * Recognize that beating Obama on the issues means showing why he’s wrong, not showing how he’s somehow powerful enough to, like, change the entire world forever;
                              * Admit that a lot of average Americans actually do want more or less what Obama’s selling, the better to reveal that it’s simple CHANGE; the broader an Obama win, the shallower.
                              For what it’s worth.
                              Sowell's paranoia is troubling. Not because of what he asserts, but because it makes his great work questionable to the uninclined. A great thinker like himself should not devolve to be worthy of writing at the NRO or NewsMax. I think one can make a similar parallel to John McCain picking Sarah Palin.
                              you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                              it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                              Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                              ----PEACE-----

                              Comment

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