Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

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  • toasty
    Sir Toastiness
    • Jun 2004
    • 6585

    #31
    Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

    Originally posted by 88Mariner
    My understanding is that there are two ways; either study how the english common law at the time influence the founding fathers in addition to the constitutional congress' notes and such and derive the purpose and focus of the founding fathers, or, resort to making it up as we go along to effectuate a fair outcome.
    Well, first of all, I denounce and reject the way you've framed the question. It is not a choice between the studious and academic "deriving the purpose and focus of the founding fathers" and the free-wheeling, party-time "making it up as we go along." More substantively, though, I don't think I even agree that that accurately sets forth the two primary approaches, because the former leaves more room for interpretation than most strict constructionists would like, but that's really hair-splitting.

    In my mind, there are two approaches to constitutional interpretation: (1) the "strict constructionist" approach, where the goal is to apply the letter of the constitution as closely as possible, avoiding interpretation at all except as necessary to determine what the founders meant at the time; and (2) what I'll call the "living document" approach, where an effort is made to apply the underlying policies and principles of the founding fathers to make a judgment upon how the founders would come down on an issue (if at all) if given the opportunity to do so today.

    I tend to follow the second approach. The world is a very different place than it was in 1787 and I don't have a problem if we as a society make an effort to interpret this 200+ year old document in a manner that is more consistent with the world in which we currently live, provided it happens in a rational and thoughtful manner. I'm not talking about changing the language as we go along, but interpreting the language in a manner that is consistent with the original intent and underlying purpose of the Constitution, but keeping the realities of modern living in mind.

    Originally posted by 88Mariner
    I'll admit that our constitution is not perfect; but even as I disagree with Scalia on the way he comes out, I think, from what I've read, he's probably got the most consistent approach to interpretation of any of the justices on the bench in many, many years.
    He has been consistent, I'll give him that. Doesn't mean he's been right, though. For other examples of wrong-headed but consistent-to-a-fault people see:

    Bush, George W.
    Cheney, Richard
    Rumsfeld, Donald

    Comment

    • toasty
      Sir Toastiness
      • Jun 2004
      • 6585

      #32
      Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

      Originally posted by Huggie Smiles
      Ive read that the last 72 hours of campaigning can really make a difference - with the example being that Al Gore was lagging a ways behind Bushie until the last 72 hours - and then he ended up winning the majority vote (not electoral).
      Any one have a comment on that?

      So actually voting on the day is still important (IMO)
      It's probably going to be less important this year than in years past, because so many states do early voting now, and many people have already cast their votes. I'm going to vote myself here in about an hour or so. True, the people that are taking advantage of early voting tend to be strong supporters and not undecided voters that would be impacted by 11th hour campaigning, but with so much early voting, candidates would have to be idiots to still have any arrows in their quiver at this point.

      Remember in 2000, there was a last-minute revelation about Bush having an old, undisclosed DWI that helped move the polls for Gore. If McCain has something like that and hasn't used it yet in this age of early voting, he's a moron.

      Comment

      • Kamal
        Administrator
        • May 2002
        • 28835

        #33
        Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

        Toasty the next time we get to hang out, the case of beers is on me. I knew there was right in even sensing a degree of optimism towards our next "leader" and if the man can ignite that vibe in you..... there's leadership right there at work.

        God I wish I coulda fucking voted..... but I sure in hell am gonna pray Obama makes it.

        Originally posted by toasty
        Voting Green or Libertarian is a vote to make a point, not get someone elected. There are elections where I'd rather make a point than see the person I'm supporting get elected; this isn't one of them. If I were ambivalent between the two major party candidates, I'd think about voting Libertarian. I'm not, though, so I'm voting Obama.

        Some reasons, briefly, that I'm supporting Obama:

        1. Restoring our stature in the world.
        2. Putting an end to Bush's economic policies.
        3. The next president is going to have the opportunity to appoint at least one more justice -- Stevens is 88 years old -- and there are 3 justices (Ginsberg, Scalia, and Kennedy) that are 72 or more and could reasonably come off of the bench for any of a host of different reasons. McCain has said that his ideal justice would be someone in the mold of Antonin Scalia, which ought to disqualify someone from being president IMO.
        4. Much more realistic, broad-based plan for developing energy independence.
        5. Intelligent use of the military.
        6. Increased transparency

        There's more, but that's a pretty good start.

        Oh, and I'm ready to have a president I can be proud of again, that promotes a positive, unifying message rather than one that is inherently negative. For about the last 6 years, most of my political thoughts have been fueled by anger, disillusionment, and hopelessness. Obama supporters are often ridiculed for being drawn to his message of hope and change, but if that message gets people involved in the process and excited about being Americans, I don't see how that can be anything but a postive step in the right direction.

        Feel free to throw any specific questions my way, via pm or otherwise -- I've got a pretty good handle on his platform...
        www.mjwebhosting.com

        Jib says:
        he isnt worth the water that splashes up into your asshole while you're shitting
        Originally posted by ace_dl
        Guys and Gals, I have to hurry/leaving for short-term vacations.
        I won't be back until next Tuesday, so if Get Carter is the correct answer, I would appreciate of someone else posts a new cap for me

        Comment

        • Steve Graham
          DJ Jelly
          • Jun 2004
          • 12887

          #34
          Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

          Kamal, does other side affect your situation at all?

          Comment

          • Kamal
            Administrator
            • May 2002
            • 28835

            #35
            Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

            Originally posted by Steve Graham
            Kamal, does other side affect your situation at all?
            not sure what you mean...... "other side" ?
            www.mjwebhosting.com

            Jib says:
            he isnt worth the water that splashes up into your asshole while you're shitting
            Originally posted by ace_dl
            Guys and Gals, I have to hurry/leaving for short-term vacations.
            I won't be back until next Tuesday, so if Get Carter is the correct answer, I would appreciate of someone else posts a new cap for me

            Comment

            • Steve Graham
              DJ Jelly
              • Jun 2004
              • 12887

              #36
              Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

              shit, sorry, i mean either side

              Comment

              • Kamal
                Administrator
                • May 2002
                • 28835

                #37
                Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                in terms of getting my residency quicker? I haven't heard either side's arguments / plans to make this process any simpler / easier for those of us who have come come here legally and doing everything by the book.

                but from a future standpoint and since I do plan to settle in the states, I do want to see our country get better in all respects and seeing what bush has done to our nation, I am looking forward for someone who sure in hell looks like he will make a heck of a difference and get us out of this stinking mess.
                www.mjwebhosting.com

                Jib says:
                he isnt worth the water that splashes up into your asshole while you're shitting
                Originally posted by ace_dl
                Guys and Gals, I have to hurry/leaving for short-term vacations.
                I won't be back until next Tuesday, so if Get Carter is the correct answer, I would appreciate of someone else posts a new cap for me

                Comment

                • Steve Graham
                  DJ Jelly
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 12887

                  #38
                  Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                  yeah, i was wondering from a residency standpoint

                  Comment

                  • Kamal
                    Administrator
                    • May 2002
                    • 28835

                    #39
                    Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                    naa mate, unfortunately that is the least of everyone else's worries
                    by the look of things, I will be rotting in the cue for the next 2 - 3 years ...... and that is an optimistic turn out
                    www.mjwebhosting.com

                    Jib says:
                    he isnt worth the water that splashes up into your asshole while you're shitting
                    Originally posted by ace_dl
                    Guys and Gals, I have to hurry/leaving for short-term vacations.
                    I won't be back until next Tuesday, so if Get Carter is the correct answer, I would appreciate of someone else posts a new cap for me

                    Comment

                    • 88Mariner
                      My dick is smaller
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 7128

                      #40
                      Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                      provided it happens in a rational and thoughtful manner

                      which, doesn't happen for the most part. If there were clear evidence of this, I'd probably agree. However, I have no evidence of this whatsoever.
                      you could put an Emfire release on for 2 minutes and you would be a sleep before it finishes - Chunky

                      it's RA. they'd blow their load all over some stupid 20 minute loop of a snare if it had a quirky flange setting. - Tiddles

                      Am I somewhere....in the corners of your mind....

                      ----PEACE-----

                      Comment

                      • toasty
                        Sir Toastiness
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 6585

                        #41
                        Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                        Originally posted by 88Mariner
                        provided it happens in a rational and thoughtful manner

                        which, doesn't happen for the most part. If there were clear evidence of this, I'd probably agree. However, I have no evidence of this whatsoever.
                        Well, constitutional interpretation occurs in the context of an adversarial process, with extensive briefing and argument, and is decided by some of the sharpest legal minds our country has to offer. If you don't agree that the litigation process results, more often than not, in a "rational and thoughtful" way of resolving these sorts of issues, you might want to look into a new chosen profession.

                        Look, I don't like Alito or Scalia from an ideological standpoint, but I'd be hard-pressed to argue that they aren't sharp motherfuckers. When the folks on the Supreme Court rule upon a constitutional issue, I'm pretty sure they've thought about it, and they've been provided all relevant authority by the parties and the various amici that also file briefs.

                        Comment

                        • chloe harris
                          Platinum Poster
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 1021

                          #42
                          Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                          obama.
                          pillow humping rules.

                          Comment

                          • toasty
                            Sir Toastiness
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 6585

                            #43
                            Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                            Originally posted by Fez Up
                            Toasty the next time we get to hang out, the case of beers is on me.

                            Comment

                            • Erik Mitchell
                              Gold Gabber
                              • Oct 2004
                              • 598

                              #44
                              Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                              If you can't decide, than don't vote
                              soundcloud - facedbook

                              Comment

                              • speciale
                                Are you Kidding me??
                                • Dec 2005
                                • 3728

                                #45
                                Re: Undecided voter...who the hell should I vote for?

                                [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc6Z807cRFI[/YOUTUBE]
                                Originally posted by Miroslav
                                It's not like he grabbed his balls and sucked his dick. It's not like he gave the Saudis the original copy of the Constitution to use as toilet paper. It's not like he gave away the secret recipe to the Colonel's chicken. .
                                No Soup for You

                                Comment

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