Why are you voting for Obama?

[thesightless]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

call me i am already setting up my tax returns to avoid it.

you will have to

1. have your employer pay you via 1099.
2. open a corp
3. get credit cards and bank acocunts in company name.
4. find a creative tax professional

keep every receipt. dinner, food, gas, bills, everything.

no fucking way im giving my hard earned money to some idiot who couldnt graduate high school

[chloe harris]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

If Obama wins I can't wait to "disburse my wealth"...kinda socialist IMO.

Don't get me wrong I am not a big McCain supporter but I think that I will disagree with him less that Obama. I am very disappointed in the Republican party for allowing McCain to be the candidate, I think they could have done so much better.

don't ya think tho in some ways, its kinda fair if you have to pay a bit more in tax being that you make 200,000 +? not because you don't work hard, not because we are stealing from you, really just because you and a lot of other people can afford it.

and if that in turn helps our economy become stronger we'll all be better off as a society no?

[shosh]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

don't ya think tho in some ways, its kinda fair if you have to pay a bit more in tax being that you make 200,000 +? not because you don't work hard, not because we are stealing from you, really just because you and a lot of other people can afford it.

and if that in turn helps our economy become stronger we'll all be better off as a society no?

hell no. if i work hard i deserve just as much of my $ as the guy who makes 10x less than me. i can afford it because of what i am doing, working hard, and what i have accomplished. why punish success?

[Nigel Harkness]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Not for hard earned money that I earned, there are to many people leeching off of the government aid programs and I don't believe that disbursing the money of other hard-working Americans into these groups of needy people will encourage anything by lazyness.

I don't believe that the money will be just from people or buisnesses making over $200K I also believe that it will come from the miiddle class to and this country can't handle that right now. And I am by no means making anywhere near $200K so it would not affect me if that is what would happen I just don't like the idea of disbursing others money, that IMO is Marxist.

[MJDub]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

Chloe's post laying out her positions earlier echoes my sentiments pretty closely. Being from the south, I've had to live with the religious cancer that I call the "Christian Taliban," and their lack of common sense and critical thinking absolutely disgusts me. Not to mention their not-so-veiled racism and proudly declared bigotry against gay people, non-Christians, and anybody else who isn't exactly like they are (white racists and bigots... and I'm white btw). It's amazing to me how people can cling so much to outdated/morally wrong ideas, even when they know them to be outdated/morally wrong (take that guy at the McCain rally who had a monkey labeled "Obama", and then when the camera caught him, he tried to play it off and give the monkey to a kid in front of him). Obama's "bitter" comments received a lot of flak, but I thought they were spot on. I know they were about people in rural Pennsylvania instead of the south, but the same mindset that's in the south prevails there as well. Furthermore, many of these so-called "compassionate conservatives" and their ilk practice the highest form of hypocracy. They beat the Bible like a dead horse, yet are never about helping their fellow man unless it's by bringing (read: forcing) God, democracy, whatever-the-fuck else they deem righteous into other people's lives. GTFO already.

Palin is everything I just said personified. She must go back to Alaska and take the Christian Taliban with her.



But enough about why I hate whatever you call this mindset (social conservatism, neo-conservatism, etc.) that permeates the Republican party. Now for the reasons I'm passionately supporting Obama.

First, such disgust with conservatism has driven me to be very liberal/progressive socially, and that starts with abortion rights, gay rights, freedom to say "fucking goddammit" when I want, etc. Obama supports similar ideas, so I support him there.

Next, the Iraq war. I've laid out my position on Iraq verbosely a few times, but the long and short of is I'm against it. So is he.

Third, Obama has much more knowledge of economics than McCain (which you could say of a pet rock, too), but he also will surround himself with the right people as well, should he need their advice. I also agree with bringing the tax code that existed under Clinton back, which he wants to do.

Fourth, his natural people skills will go far in restoring America's diplomatic prestige in the world. Republicans call it weakness or whatever, but it's much more effective/efficient to make friends than to kill enemies. Obama will be infinitely better at making this happen than McCain.

I tend to agree with Obama's philosophy and policy positions on most of the other issues as well, with the exception of his energy plan. I like what he has planned, but I think nuclear power (through the use of breeder reactors - much more efficient) should be worked into the plan more. France has a pretty good model to follow with their nuclear grid, and breeder reactors use what is considered waste from reactors we currently use.



More importantly than any policy position however, is Obama's personality/leadership traits. There is no sense of panic that comes from him, which can't be said about McCain. We need somebody, especially now, who has a level head and calm demeanor and will make deliberate decisions, instead of being so reactionary like Bush has been and McCain was with his response to the economic crisis. Both Bush and McCain seem to have an immaturity about them by refusing to see all sides of an issue (like some kind of over-compensating, over-agressive frat dude or something) whereas Obama comes off as the old/wise one. For the last 8 years, fear has come from the top. I haven't once felt assured by what Bush has said or done because he always seemed proud of himself just that he made it through a speech. Someone that terrible at communication does not inspire confidence. (for what it's worth Reagan was good at communication) Even if Obama is faking his calmness, we need somebody who can calm the nation, especially with tough times ahead.




So there you have it. These are the reasons that I will weep for our nation should McCain win, and the reasons that I'm passionately supporting Barack Obama. Yes we can.

[chloe harris]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

then u don't need to worry eh. ^


anyway i thought about this, and shosh i said before it didn't have anything to do with your hard work... maybe it would be easier for everyone if we got to see where our tax money went exactly. i know we 'get' to see bits of it... if i made loads of cash and was taxed on it and knew i was going to help pay for education, protecting the environment and finding new ways of energy, i'd gladly pay those taxes. if i knew my money was going to help people in africa then i'd be happy about giving up my money and lastly if i knew i was going to help my people id stand up and be a man about it and act like its a responsibility i have as a human to help my children achieve what i may have.

i dunno thats just me tho. i'd happily pay extra taxes if i made 200+ especially because there are so many ways of getting tax write offs.

[Miroslav]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

don't ya think tho in some ways, its kinda fair if you have to pay a bit more in tax being that you make 200,000 +? not because you don't work hard, not because we are stealing from you, really just because you and a lot of other people can afford it.

and if that in turn helps our economy become stronger we'll all be better off as a society no?

I see where you're going with this. And I agree with you that everyone should pay their fair share. I've even become willing to take the chance of Obama's more progressive tax structure at this point in our economic cycle. But let me tell you as a professional finance guy, it's not always that simple. And there is real risk in overtaxing rich people.

Very briefly, we're fundamentally a successful country when the people and entities with deep pockets are free to deploy their capital in creative, risk-taking ways and reap the consequences (hopefully positive) thereof. And yes, that still applies even now as we've had to bail out a bunch of stupid banks because of the crisis we're in. In general, you want to avoid what we call too many "frictions" (red tape, expense, other burden, etc.) in the capital allocation process. That means you don't want to make it excessively bureaucratic, expensive, or punishing to deploy capital, because if you do, then those rich people with deep pockets will take their money elsewhere - it's a global economy now - and deploy it there. In a global, efficient market, capital moves to the place wherever it earns the best reward for the risk taken.

To your point, perhaps people might be more willing to part with their tax dollars if they could really see the benefit of it. Unfortunately, there is a pervasive and long-standing mistrust of the government's ability to efficiently and effectively invest tax dollars in a way that people see as broadly beneficial. They see that they pay in and then get two wars a bunch of expensive bailouts for companies that screwed up while the government was asleep at the switch in regulating them. And they see that social security is bankrupt and that healthcare is more expensive than ever. And a $1 trillion deficit.

Have you ever wondered why so many lower income people in rural places tend to be Republican, even though it seems they might be the ones who could benefit most from assistance? Maybe it's because they don't really ever trust that they'll get something for the dollars they give to lawyers and government officials. Maybe they've learned that all they can rely on is themselves and that sometimes their pride is all they have left.

Maybe Obama can start to change that....it's a pretty tall order and he's got his work cut out for him....

[Jenks]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

call me i am already setting up my tax returns to avoid it.

you will have to

1. have your employer pay you via 1099.
2. open a corp
3. get credit cards and bank acocunts in company name.
4. find a creative tax professional

keep every receipt. dinner, food, gas, bills, everything.

no fucking way im giving my hard earned money to some idiot who couldnt graduate high school

^ I've been doing this for years.


btw, did the early voting thing today, went smoothly, only took about 30 mins. sean, except for presidential, i voted independent and green when it was available. can we hug?

[shosh]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

call me i am already setting up my tax returns to avoid it.

you will have to

1. have your employer pay you via 1099.
2. open a corp
3. get credit cards and bank acocunts in company name.
4. find a creative tax professional

keep every receipt. dinner, food, gas, bills, everything.

no fucking way im giving my hard earned money to some idiot who couldnt graduate high school

like jenks said, ive been doing this for the past 6 years, but ive still been paying a shit load of taxes

then u don't need to worry eh. ^


anyway i thought about this, and shosh i said before it didn't have anything to do with your hard work... maybe it would be easier for everyone if we got to see where our tax money went exactly. i know we 'get' to see bits of it... if i made loads of cash and was taxed on it and knew i was going to help pay for education, protecting the environment and finding new ways of energy, i'd gladly pay those taxes. if i knew my money was going to help people in africa then i'd be happy about giving up my money and lastly if i knew i was going to help my people id stand up and be a man about it and act like its a responsibility i have as a human to help my children achieve what i may have.

i dunno thats just me tho. i'd happily pay extra taxes if i made 200+ especially because there are so many ways of getting tax write offs.

i still dont think or want to pay a higher percentage than the rest. i dont feel its right. if i choose to give money away, i want to do so of my own choosing, not because i am forced to or my money is taken away from me. i already give plenty to charities and as i make more money i will give more, i just dont want to give to some lunatic's crazy plans.

[ddr]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

except for presidential, i voted independent and green when it was available. can we hug?

i did the same.

as for why i voted Obama, i really echo everything about Miroslav & chloe. the meain reason being Palin... as i have said before, she scares the crap out of me.

as far as income, i agree with shosh. even though i dont make over 200 a year, i think my hard work should not be penalized more than the guy working at mcdonalds.

[speedyrolls]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

1. because obama's a democrat
2. mccain is a republican

simple

[Jenks]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

like jenks said, ive been doing this for the past 6 years, but ive still been paying a shit load of taxes

1. if you're doing that, and paying a shitload of taxes:

a) you're doing it wrong, or

b) you're making a fucking shitload of money, ballin type cash yo, doubt you're going to get any tears.

my cpa always tells me, "having a tax problem is a good problem to have, that means you're making a lot of money."

[Miroslav]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

@miro. well said. better than anythign most people have said. single most specific post reagding a pro obama stance. the rest have been too avague and quote change without how.

Thanks. I should clarify, though... If I push the button for Obama, I will be scared as hell doing it. I'm aware that there's a lot of risk with the choice. I don't passionately support him as some on here might, and my heritage has always been closer to fiscal conservativism than big government. I would not have thought four years ago that I would really consider supporting a guy like him for the office. But as everything in business, you measure the payoffs of the choice relative to the opportunity costs at the time...

[shosh]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

1. if you're doing that, and paying a shitload of taxes:

a) you're doing it wrong, or

b) you're making a fucking shitload of money, ballin type cash yo, doubt you're going to get any tears.

my cpa always tells me, "having a tax problem is a good problem to have, that means you're making a lot of money."

lol i'm not doing it wrong... but i'm also not looking for any tears. i'm just saying i want to pay my fair share and thats it

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obamas-new-atta.html

heres my thing... if i can make money, so can everyone else. you dont have money or want more? better yourself, get a 2nd or 3rd job.

[clintlove]

Re: Why are you voting for Obama?

cause he's black