Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Mate calm yourself down...for one.
Secondly if you use the internet for niche interests you may as well be using a TV set. As for the white paper I read it and the Balfour Declaration...the white paper was written in 1939 when the British realized that the aim of the Zionists would soon de-facto become a reality through immigration. The British had never imagined that the Arabs would become a minority in their own land...and anyway soon after the end of WW2 the british gave up control over Israel/Palestine because they did not want to endanger their relationship with the US and their intersts in the middle east over something as unimportant to them as Israel.

Unlike Britain the US political system is a lot more prone to lobbying + it became clear to all Zionists during and post WW2 that the global balance of power had shifted from the UK to the US.

I know my history well enough to know whats propaganda and whats not so have no fear. Furthermore I have no personal feelings to cloud my opinions when evaluating sources.

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

British protectorate? Really? Whilst the British only took 'control' of what is now Israel and Jordan after the demise of the Ottoman empire after the WWI, after the Ottomans had become increasingly hostile towards the Arabs under their 'rule' during the dying days of the war.

the reason the Ottomans became hostile to Arabs was precisely because the Arabs were promised things by the British and decided to help in the War...ever heard of Lawrence of Arabia?

But since obviously you want to focus on the British rule, its under British protection that led to the Hebron massacre of 1929. Its also under so-called British protection that jews were being turned away and sent back to Nazi occupied Europe in the run up to the war. After all lets no forget that the League of Nation actually ratified the balfour Decleration, whilst it was the British who under Arab pressure refused to let Europes persecuted Jews into the land the world had set aside for them. Such great British protection.

My point was that the British had allowed the sittuation to escalate beyond control. As for the "world" setting aside the land thats pure bollocks the "world" didn't give two shits and had enough problems of its own to deal with to think of some middle eastern nation.

As for broken promises what about the promises made to the Arabs to win their support in the War??? Self Determination...ever heard of that? or Woodrow Willsons fourteen points?

You do remember what we now call Jordan was also part of the British Mandate - and was meant to be part of the orginial two state solution. But in reality the Arabs got their land whilst the Jew didnt. Also try not ignore in your reading that the whole frigging area was split up by the winning allies and nation states were created where pre-WWI they didn't exist.

Syria - created by France in 1936

TransJordan - created by British in April 1921 - Jordan than founded in 1946

Iraq - Indepandance granted only in 1932 from UK occupation (after fall of Ottoman empire)

During the rule of the Ottoman Empire, for 500 years, these territories were nothing more than tribal waste lands controlled by the Empire - Nation states did not exist.

Yeah but who lived there Jews or Arabs? What do you exect? Just because the population living there had no nation states it means that its okay for another group of people to come in and take their land and say now this our state?? The reason why they didn't have states was because they had been part of the Ottoman Empire.
Look at europe after the fall of the Ottomans there were wars and borders followed, the Middle East however went from one Empire into the hands of another so they couldn't really decide their own fate.

But considering we were given it, as you say, maybe you would like to explain how during the 30's and 40's when Jews were being killed on mass in concentration camps they were being turned away from the one place the world had said was theres?

Again you say "the world had said" I really don't know what you are referring to there...no one said and no one had the right to say apart from the people living there at the time.

P.S. Just read your whole post and it really doesn't require a reply Fuck off mate your a fucking idiot and you really do not deserve a reply. I am trying to have a civilized discussion with you but it seems that you are incapable of that so I will end my argument with you. The only thing I regret is trying to have a debate with a nationalist bigot.
Have a good life!

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Little children who try debate need to do so with real facts, you have failed as my previous post has proven - and your ultimate response is to end with a personal attack against me.

Nice one - really shows you want to debate - what you want to do is to use these pages to post historical lies and half truths and when you were picked up on them you went running. Pathetic.

In your own words:

Fuck off mate your a fucking idiot

[Shpira]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

I am still here but to personal attacks I respond with equal measure.

[Shiva]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

lol. I hear ya Shiva. My hope is that the will to go forward exceeds that of holding on to old feuds, but agitating groups like Hamas and Hizbullah are very persistent. In fact, prosperity in Lebanon would basically eat away the basis of existence for groups like those because it is on dissatisfaction that they thrive.

The taks for the Lebanese govt now is to show that prosperity and in fact a beneficial co-existence with Israel is a valid alternative for waging war against them. That might deal a massive blow to those assholes that are willing to sacrifice hundreds of lives of other people to make their claim on the ultimate Truth.

I must say I've heard some nice stories about Beirut from one of my closest friends who's an archaeologist and has been working on excavation sites on more than one occasion. Checking out Dave's crib is still on my list, so who knows...if they let me in with an Israelian stamp in my passport, Beirut could be another stop while I'm around there anyway. (Got so many plans for travelling in the next few years...I need a shitload of money!).

Yes, Beirut is REALLY a nice capital, when it is a peace around here. The Lebanese people are really nice, a huge mix of mentalities and cultures, very educated people, speak so many languages...but when it comes to politix I feel they are DUMP. Coz UNITY is what holds this melting pot together, what makes this country so magic and it seems some are not understanding that yet. Maybe they need another 20 or 30 years of civil war to figure that out...

I have lived in many west European capitals, have been to most of them:
Beirut beats them all, by miles!

The beauty is not only in its infrastructure, but also in its people, and Lebanon has both to offer....(when at peace). Yes it is a very interesting touristic destination to be... I mean I came here as a tourist, 16 years later I am still here and that says it all. Now I am even more Lebanese than the real Lebanese...

With a stamp of Israel you cannot enter Lebanon, that much I know and sure of it. But I had heard that the Israeli visa is now released on a separate paper, doesn't come anymore through a stamp on the passport, precisely for reasons like this. or am I wrong, Dave?
Yao, you wana come here you need to change passport, get a new one and the issue is solved....and you can consider u have a friend here.

[Shiva]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Oh I missed the 2 posts above mine.....no

PLEASE GUYS, LETS KEEP THIS CLEAN, NO PERSONAL OFFENSES...or it doesn't make sense to participate in a debate.

[davetlv]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

With a stamp of Israel you cannot enter Lebanon, that much I know and sure of it. But I had heard that the Israeli visa is now released on a separate paper, doesn't come anymore through a stamp on the passport, precisely for reasons like this. or am I wrong, Dave?
Yao, you wana come here you need to change passport, get a new one and the issue is solved....and you can consider u have a friend here.

As usual my friend you are correct.

When entering Israeli it is acceptable to ask for a stamp not to be in your passport - I don't know who they arrange it, but we understand the fact that some countries cause problems for visitor with our stamps in them.

[Yao]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Politics is never impersonal, that much has become clear to me in the past years. Most important thing is that you're able to clear the sheet when the discussion is done and have a beer together .

Good thing that Israel issues it's visas on separate papers, it's such a shame that any connection with them makes one an unwanted guest in the surrounding countries. I wonder if would be easier to first check out Beirut and then got to Israel...do they have the same policy or would it be different?

And thanks for the offer Shiv, I'll keep it in mind if I decide to take the Middle-East option...same goes for both you and Dave whenever you make it to The Netherlands.

[runningman]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRwUZ-u6KFo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Fthe-cias-iranian-plan%2F&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Here this explains it.

"I sung myself the National Anthem..."

Funny that Lisa Ling doesnt seem to get the same attection as this Iranian journalst.
Lisa Ling is fucked now with this Iran problem. 12 Years hard labor.

[Kamal]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

I don't know who they arrange it, but we understand the fact that some countries cause problems for visitor with our stamps in them.

yes this is true, very often we have inspectors flying all over the world to inspect ships and some of them have stated that consulates of certain countries ask for additional documentary evidence after seeing an Isreali stamp in their passports. Rubbish if you ask me.

[Yao]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

Ah, the old bullying trick...

[runningman]

Re: Israel or US to Bomb Iran before January

The warlord has spoken. Strap on your boots boys.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkQ1iNHEGW8[/YOUTUBE]

Now you know why it is getting so much coverage.