A SAD, SAD DAY...

[Civic_Zen]

nice to see that not all americans are farmers..

(sorry well for that expression, but here from switzerland seems to be)

I'm tired of these generalizations roaming around that stereotypes repubz to the worst degree. Mostly that we are all Christians and hick farmers, its all wrong. One of the biggest mistakes that the Dems make is to characterize the Repub party as driven by a fundamentalist Christian agenda. And I see this VERY often with the libz on this board. While most fundamentalists are also Repubs, in fact most Repubs are NOT fundamentalists -- they represent a small part of the Repub "big tent." I am in no way shape or form a Christian, in fact, I pretty much despise any/all religion, especially when it garners control in politics like in the middle east. And on the other front, I have a very Christian friend that is as liberal as they come.

No, what Repubs have in common on the moral front is not religious fundamentalism -- it is instead a moral core, and a sense that old-fashioned AMERICAN values are what is important for the future of this country. For example, we believe strongly AGAINST a state-mandated religion, this would be a huge mistake to make religion part of our political system because then we would become no better then the people we have set out to fight. But we also believe that "under God" in the Pledge -- or even the Ten Commandments on a public wall -- would not violate the Constitution. Although I am against reciting the pledge in schools, otherwise its part of being an American. We believe in self-reliance more than reliance on the government, and most of us still believe in American exceptionalism. We believe that people use the government rather then just use it to get back on their feet, where as libz tend to believe that these people need this help more then is often the truth. I don't mind helping people get back on their feet, but helping them for the rest of their life is inexcusable. I don't think I should have to pay for someone's college education when I can barely afford one for myself. This is the heart of our "lower taxes, less governemnt stance." In fact, if you want a pretty good exposition of modern Repub values, read the Inaugural speech of that fine modern Repub president, John F. Kennedy. Yes he was a dem, but back then the demz were what the repubz are now.

Next ..... This was not a close election at all by the standards of the past few decades. A 3.5-million-vote majority for the President and a pickup in both the House and the Senate and throwing the Senate minority leader out of office altogether is the biggest victory that any party has seen in one election in a long long time. You'd better believe that GW has a mandate! Now, I hope he uses it.

What I am talking about is the political TREND in this country, not so much this single election. The trend is not toward Michael Moore and Howard Dean and Hollywood and big-government solutions and Bill Clinton's loose take on morality, but neither is it toward Jerry Falwell or any other FARMER stereotype you can place on us -- it is instead back to our American roots. I think that most Repubs realize this, but most Dem leaders still do not.... and that is why they lost Senator Tom Daschle's seat, that is why they lost this election as a whole, and that is why --- if they honestly believe Hillary Clinton can help them in 2008 they are SORELY, very sorely mistaken. Even most libz I know hate that women with a passion, if she runs against Gulliani, or a McCain, the slaughtering she would take would be a landslide in comaprisson.

So on that note, I'd get used to this repub thing, we are going to be here more then just 4 more years. :wink:

[devon]

but wait, if the average of the majority of america votes and its 51/49 going in bush's favor, you are assuming that the portion that didn't vote will vote entirely for kerry. nope, you're wrong. if the avg of the majority of america voted for bush, you have to assume the the portion that didn't vote would be pretty much the same outcome.

you are right! this election had the most amount of people in history come out and vote for bush. but remember it also had the second most come out and vote against him.

bush won the popular vote by approx 3 million. that really isn't that much to say america has spoken. the other half said go back to texas. but it is what it is and now we have four more years.

also last night i saw that the issue of morality was the number one issue when it came time to vote. i also saw that the porn industry is thriving in middle and southern america. just a thought.

[viceroy]

nice to see that not all americans are farmers..

(sorry well for that expression, but here from switzerland seems to be)

I'm tired of these generalizations roaming around that stereotypes repubz to the worst degree. Mostly that we are all Christians and hick farmers, its all wrong. One of the biggest mistakes that the Dems make is to characterize the Repub party as driven by a fundamentalist Christian agenda. And I see this VERY often with the libz on this board. While most fundamentalists are also Repubs, in fact most Repubs are NOT fundamentalists -- they represent a small part of the Repub "big tent." I am in no way shape or form a Christian, in fact, I pretty much despise any/all religion, especially when it garners control in politics like in the middle east. And on the other front, I have a very Christian friend that is as liberal as they come.

No, what Repubs have in common on the moral front is not religious fundamentalism -- it is instead a moral core, and a sense that old-fashioned AMERICAN values are what is important for the future of this country. For example, we believe strongly AGAINST a state-mandated religion, this would be a huge mistake to make religion part of our political system because then we would become no better then the people we have set out to fight. But we also believe that "under God" in the Pledge -- or even the Ten Commandments on a public wall -- would not violate the Constitution. Although I am against reciting the pledge in schools, otherwise its part of being an American. We believe in self-reliance more than reliance on the government, and most of us still believe in American exceptionalism. We believe that people use the government rather then just use it to get back on their feet, where as libz tend to believe that these people need this help more then is often the truth. I don't mind helping people get back on their feet, but helping them for the rest of their life is inexcusable. I don't think I should have to pay for someone's college education when I can barely afford one for myself. This is the heart of our "lower taxes, less governemnt stance." In fact, if you want a pretty good exposition of modern Repub values, read the Inaugural speech of that fine modern Repub president, John F. Kennedy. Yes he was a dem, but back then the demz were what the repubz are now.

Next ..... This was not a close election at all by the standards of the past few decades. A 3.5-million-vote majority for the President and a pickup in both the House and the Senate and throwing the Senate minority leader out of office altogether is the biggest victory that any party has seen in one election in a long long time. You'd better believe that GW has a mandate! Now, I hope he uses it.

What I am talking about is the political TREND in this country, not so much this single election. The trend is not toward Michael Moore and Howard Dean and Hollywood and big-government solutions and Bill Clinton's loose take on morality, but neither is it toward Jerry Falwell or any other FARMER stereotype you can place on us -- it is instead back to our American roots. I think that most Repubs realize this, but most Dem leaders still do not.... and that is why they lost Senator Tom Daschle's seat, that is why they lost this election as a whole, and that is why --- if they honestly believe Hillary Clinton can help them in 2008 they are SORELY, very sorely mistaken. Even most libz I know hate that women with a passion, if she runs against Gulliani, or a McCain, the slaughtering she would take would be a landslide in comaprisson.

So on that note, I'd get used to this repub thing, we are going to be here more then just 4 more years. :wink:

Getting back to our roots in one thing, but electing a complete moron who has done nothing buy lie, cheat and steal the past 4 years is another.

WHAT GOOD HAS DUBYAH DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY?















that's right....nothing.

[krelm]

One of the biggest mistakes that the Dems make is to characterize the Repub party as driven by a fundamentalist Christian agenda. And I see this VERY often with the libz on this board. While most fundamentalists are also Repubs, in fact most Repubs are NOT fundamentalists -- they represent a small part of the Repub "big tent."

It certainly is true that most republicans are not fundies, by the numbers -

However, it is very difficult to deny that the fundies have increasingly had a larger and larger influence in Republican politics and policies (and rhetoric) in recent years. *Especially* in the south.

During the last 4 years (and for the next 4 years), we have had an administration in the white house which is seriously in the extreme end of the spectrum when it comes to the religion factor. This partially (or wholly) guides their policies on some very important domestic issues - abortion, gay rights/marriage, stem cell research, etc etc etc. It doesn't even stop at the borders. How many times have you heard Bush invoke "God" while talking about the war on terror?

While I don't necessarily agree with many the philosophical, economic, or social beliefs of the Republican party, I consider it merely a difference of opinion and it's no skin off my back. The majority of the constituents of both parties do want what is best for America - different means to the same end. I respect that regardless of party affiliation. But when so much of the Republican party's current direction (even if it comes from just a tiny number of their constituents) is so blatantly driven by religion, it just makes me sick. It's a far cry from state-sponsored religion, but it is not something that leads to "freedom for all" either. Religion is personal, not policy.

I grew up in North Dallas, where fundamental Christianity is the norm, so this is a rather sensitive issue to me (if you couldn't tell ). My parents dragged me to fundy evangelical churches for several years before they finally "woke up" and realized the hypocricy of how those people worked. I know how these people think and it disgusts me. I see the influence of the religious right in politics, in the Republican party, and it disgusts me. I wish the Republican party would shed that side and really get back to their core values that you speak of. Religion and politics on any level is a dangerous combination.

On a semi-related note, my already-low opinion of Kerry sunk even lower in the 3rd debate when, in the last few minutes, he started trying to "out-God" Bush. Fucking twat. If this election had been Kerry vs. some Republican other than Bush (who didn't wear his religion on his sleeve), I might have voted Republican.

[krelm]

WHAT GOOD HAS DUBYAH DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY?

Hey come on now - be fair.

At least Bush has given political-based satirists enough material for decades. SNL and The Daily Show probably breathed a huge sigh of relief when Kerry conceded.

[asdf_admin]

my only repsonse is that history will tell.

everyone is always this and that. yet no one knows for sure. sure the guy has done some shady shit, but hell don't they all? so let's put a lid on it, and let history tell the verdict. it will be the only definitive source of fact and truth. o, and stop being such sorry ass losers. fuck. don't you guys & gals (respect to da ladies) have a life? hesh.

blow me a fucking river with some cardboard. do SOMETHING!

[Civic_Zen]

Getting back to our roots in one thing, but electing a complete moron who has done nothing buy lie, cheat and steal the past 4 years is another.

WHAT GOOD HAS DUBYAH DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY?

that's right....nothing.

Unfortunetely, electing a President in America isn't always going to be - "OH GW did a whole lot for me so I'm going to re-elect him." Its more about what Kerry wouldn't do in his stead. Once again, the lesser of the two evils. Bush was the strong leader here.

Besides, I don't believe Bush lied, cheated, or stole anything. I don't subscribe to Michael Moore Monthly.

[asdf_admin]

(Bush) He is just an honest dumbass.

Plus. If Kerry had something besides Mrs. Ketchup, I would of voted for him. That fucking witch scares me. What a booz-hound-open-legs-ketchup-filled-bs.

eck.

[sacredawe78]

Someone please tell me what GOOD things George W. Bush had done in his lfetime??

Make a list..............if you can

I can't see a single good thing about this person...NONE

...and please REMEMBER goodness is based on empirical data, consequentialism....NOT his SOUL or INTENTIONS

I cannot see anything...he is a murderer, an exploiter, (capitalist)
...and as far as being an actor he sucks....but that really isnt important

Kerry was a capitalist...yes...

Apparently he killed some people in Vietnam too...so yes he is a murderer

BUUUT...he did admit Vietnam was wrong...and he did have the desire to unify other countries as a primary concern....and most importantly, IMO

HE SAID WE SHOULD DISMANTLE OUR NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION BEFORE WE ASK OTHER COUNTRIES TO DO SO!!!!!!!

I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT....AND THAT TOOK COURAGE.

He was by far the lesser of the two evils

Bush is a STEADFAST murderer, capitalist, and expoliter

Kerry had SOME decent qualities compared to BUSH = NONE!

thats all this comes down to

[Garrick]

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN...THANKS!!!!!!

do the world a favor and heed your own advice. you've already made your point, move on.

[thesightless]

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

bush tried to get social security to earn itself interest by allowing it to be invested in the top 500 mutual funds in the world, but was blocked by democrats who said the costs associated with the actual overseeing could be used for better things.

bush lowered taxes on investments so people could try to set up a nest egg. he dropped them from a peak of 36% to 15%. also, he ammended the estate tax so you dont forfeit 40-60% of what your parents want to give you. he also doubled the home purchase exemption up to 250k per person. ie half a million for a parried couple. that means you can now buy a house without paying taxes on a huge gain in assest. (most ppl around 200k).

albeit a huge disagreement with the more liberal ppl, including myself, he attempted to ban gay marriage, which got a lot of flack, and when he laid off it, and the states took control of the matter, they ended up banning even quicker. hey, it aint right, but democracy goes by majority. he followed the majority,

ppl hate the war, but realize that afghanistan had its first free elections ever last month.
iraq has more to do with oil and the world economy. but we are setting up a democracy. even if you focus on the oil matter, which cant be overlooked, you gotta realize the world itself, not just USA, relies on it for damn near everything. power, fuel, etc. and dont alternative energy sources, b/c they arent feasible yet. maybe later but not now.

people here in NYC went bezerk during the RNC about the AIDS issue, and with good heart, but dont scream about bush ignoring the Afgrican crisis, he made america the highest donor to the cause. nearly double what the second highest donor country was.

and as for him not being bright, just because he wasnt a lawyer and has sub par public speaking ability, dont hold it against him. not everyone is a speech and debate person.

try to think with common sense on both sides.

re: nuclear proliferation, NATO has asked the US, UK, and australia not to dismantle them. we need them just in case another WW2 happens, god forbid.

[Balanc3]

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

Mwaahh...don't know. I think it's still the minorities dat had the lower turnout, and they would lean towards Kerry I think. Although I doubt they would've made up those 3.5 mln votes difference...

Dems had their highest turnout EVER... much because they had 527's working overtime to work the GOTV effort. They had like 250 vans/per organization (ACT, MOVEON, LCV) in each major city, in each state. Of course there are many lazy democrats, just as their are republicans, but i'd prefer they just not vote. Those people usually vote for the wrong reasons and their is a thing such as voter responsibility. Dems are just going to have to try even harder, just as they have been since 2000...if there will be any chance in 2008. I expect the Dems to play extremely dirty in the next race, definately noticed an increase this election. trash

[thesightless]

this election seemed to be just about anti - bush b/c of war. not about pro-dem for any reason. also, hollywood didnt help at all when you have people like p.diddy(asshole) running around trying to create a trend. they actually tried to make voting for kerry a fashion thing.

whatever. go guiliani. :P

[devon]

(Bush) He is just an honest dumbass.

Plus. If Kerry had something besides Mrs. Ketchup, I would of voted for him. That fucking witch scares me. What a booz-hound-open-legs-ketchup-filled-bs.

eck.

now that's just mud slinging. i sort of liked her. she wasn't a typical first lady but she was fiesty.

the one good thing about W being re-elected is that i bet his daughters are going to come out with some freaky deaky sex video. probably both of them banging some well hung black man. that would be worth another four years.

[Civic_Zen]

this election seemed to be just about anti - bush b/c of war. not about pro-dem for any reason. also, hollywood didnt help at all when you have people like p.diddy(asshole) running around trying to create a trend. they actually tried to make voting for kerry a fashion thing.

whatever. go guiliani. :P

Great point, did you see Ashton Kutcher and all the other Hollywood pretty boys join him. He actually had the nerve to say, "Thats right I want you to vote for Kerry even though he will raise my taxes and lower yours." Its amazing that people think repubz help the rich get richer, when in fact the demz are more guilty of it. What a tosser Kutcher is.