Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

[Localizer]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

lets debate what I posted earlier. Don't you think that Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois will be a little upset that we hand over Trillions to the banks but nothing to keep great paying jobs that support the American values? I mean when do we tell the banks "hey you fucked up this is your problem" I mean the loans that they gave out mid as well been equal to autos giving away free cars and wondering why they didn't get paid isn't it?

You know what the funniest thing of all is. There isn't anything in the news about holding these banks accountable. I mean shouldn't someone (or thousands of people) be going to jail over this. How about the CEO's and board of directors of every major bank in the US?? I think that is fair. That is called holding someone accountable. That has become a lost art of the USA

Um, if you hand over trillions to the bank (which I don't like as much as the next person), then the auto manufacturers can pay their employees and people can get loans to purchase vehicles. Revolving door of credit anyone?

But I agree, the heads of the CEOs should be on the chopping block and those employed by the companies should be the ones bailing out these companies. Was there not one person who had the balls or the brains to figure out their company was being retarded. Shit, this makes the folks at Enron look like geniuses.

[Miroslav]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

You know what the funniest thing of all is. There isn't anything in the news about holding these banks accountable. I mean shouldn't someone (or thousands of people) be going to jail over this. How about the CEO's and board of directors of every major bank in the US?? I think that is fair. That is called holding someone accountable. That has become a lost art of the USA

You know what the funniest thing of all is? You want the banks' management to be held accountable, but you don't call for the auto makers' management to be accountable - a management group that has been one of the biggest international case studies of miserable and uncompetitive business practices over the past twenty years. ohh, teh lolz

If the banks should be held accountable for the fact that they're disasters (and I think they should), then so should those car companies. They've had ages to get their shit together while foreign competitors ate their lunch, and they never really changed.

[chunky]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

^^
I'm sure there's an obvious explanation for this but can someone explain the difference between the banks management and Nick Leeson. He was held accountable and went to prison.


I'd hardly say the foreign companies are doing any better. I've been laid off for two and a half months in the first quarter of next year. and that's unpaid. We are also taking a 17 % pay cut. I work for Honda but its the same story at Mercedes BMW Mini, Nissan and everywhere else.

[88Mariner]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

^^
I'm sure there's an obvious explanation for this but can someone explain the difference between the banks management and Nick Leason. He was held accountable and went to prison.


I'd hardly say the foreign companies are doing any better. I've been laid off for two and a half months in the first quarter of next year. and that's unpaid. We are also taking a 17 % pay cut. I work for Honda but its the same story at Mercedes BMW Mini, Nissan and everywhere else.

which plant were you working at? what stuff do you do?

[chunky]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

I'm on the Technical Support team at Honda UK Manufacturing in Swindon

[Miroslav]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

^^
I'm sure there's an obvious explanation for this but can someone explain the difference between the banks management and Nick Leeson. He was held accountable and went to prison.

There is a difference between being held accountable and being convicted of a crime. Nick Leeson committed a crime of fraud; he speculated in unauthorized ways against the policies of his employer and then lied about it (tried to hide it). To date, there has not been a clear body of evidence to indicate that banks intentionally defrauded their investors. The fact that their bets didn't pan out due to systemic problems in the new, highly leveraged sset-backed financial derivatives that they used is not sufficient evidence of criminal activity.

However, banking executives should of course be personally held accountable, even as their organizations are now bailed out at taxpayers' expense. That means they should be forced out of their positions and have their income significantly penalized by their boards as any employee would for sub-par performance.

When shit blows up like it has recently, it's tempting to wish to single out one or two individuals and blame them for it. But when we get into big messes like this, the ugly reality is that we got into the big mess precisely because it wasn't just a few people; it was wide-stale participation by all kinds of groups of people all over the world over a protracted period of time - including the average consumer out there. There is lots of collective blame to go around for the world in which we currently find ourselves.

[runningman]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Hey Miro i'm not prejudice hell put the Autos on the chopping block as well. But lets try to keep some sort of balance. You can't hand over $1.8 Trillion to banks and nobody gets in trouble and then turn to the big three for only $25 B and say "hey you guys are fucked up and eat it."

[Shpira]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Actually, I don't have a single one. I just have an understanding of: (1) the role that major banks like Citi - one of the few largest in the nation - play in the global economy; and (2) the unfortunate structure and situation that has resulted from allowing those major banks to become over-leveraged with relatively new and unregulated financial tools and techniques. If you want a primer, let me know.

+1
This is all true +the car manufacturers have been bailed out once before was it early 80's or late 70's not sure but that was a mistake IMO and I hope they don't make the same mistake twice.

On the other hand I am not up for giving free money either. . .there should be tighter regulations on trading and the workings of the system should be transparent to all who are interested. + there should be a government organization that evaluates the quality of debt i.e. the likelihood of loan defaults.

[Miroslav]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

^^ ok, fair enough. And I hear what you're saying. There is a gross element of unfairness when we get into this unfortunate situation where the government chooses who gets bailed out and who doesn't, because you know that there is just not enough to go around to everyone who needs it. Added to that you have the sad fact that those who arguably deserve the bailouts the least are the ones who need them most to ensure our own safety. It sucks. All I can tell you is what I've said before: banks own a special place in the economic foodchain, because the movement of capital is the lifeblood of the economy. Take away the banks, and everything else will shut down fast. I won't belabor the point.

But honestly, I suspect that they will end up bailing out the car manufacturers in some form. Even though I think they probably shouldn't...the only entities that should be bailed out are those that are paramount to the survival of the overall economic system - and that doesn't even include all financial intermediaries, only certain ones.

[runningman]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

that bailout as you call it for autos back in the 80's was not a bailout it was a loan that the government got paid back on. So if your not for making money then ya this is a bad idea. See this is the fundamental problem about this is that not enough people know the facts. This $25 Bil is another loan like back in the 80's compared to a trillion dollars in toxic assets that aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Also unemployment in the US would rise overnight to depression levels of 18%. 1 in 10 jobs in the US come from autos causing more foreclosures (more banking problems). Miro you would probably be for this so that way we can just keep giving the banks more money.

[chunky]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

Honda UK are now 1600 employees over staffed in their production plant. They currently are now not renewing contracts with their logistics companies. They are taking control of the operations themselves, then filling the new positions with current Honda employees. Making the logistics employees unemployed.

[runningman]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

what nobody wants to discuss my previous post. I love having the last word. That is how you know when someone won.

[88Mariner]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

what nobody wants to discuss my previous post. I love having the last word. That is how you know when someone won.

you got your last word in after everyone left the party. lolwut?

[MJDub]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

lolwut?

/drunk

[runningman]

Re: Citi Now to get Bailed Out But Auto's Still get the Shaft

tiny insults from tiny men don't bother me.

Ya Fuck those useless Autos'. The big three should be shut down for making shitty cars and the rest of the industry is fine... YAAAAA!!!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,592658,00.html

Now what do you have to say??