Bush's Ohio Vote Numbers Boosted by E-Voting Glitches

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • delirious
    Addiction started
    • Jun 2004
    • 288

    Bush's Ohio Vote Numbers Boosted by E-Voting Glitches



    Machine error gives Bush 3,893 extra votes in Ohio
    By John McCarthy, Associated Press


    COLUMBUS, Ohio ? An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

    Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Bush's total should have been recorded as 365.

    Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after saying that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result.

    Deducting the erroneous Bush votes from his total could not change the election's outcome, and there were no signs of other errors in Ohio's electronic machines, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell.

    Franklin is the only Ohio county to use Danaher Controls's ELECTronic 1242, an older-style touchscreen voting system. Danaher did not immediately return a message for comment.

    Sean Greene, research director with the nonpartisan Election Reform Information Project, said that while the glitch appeared minor "that could change if more of these stories start coming out."

    In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost in this election because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did.

    And in San Francisco, a malfunction with custom voting software could delay efforts to declare the winners of four races for county supervisor.

    Multiple copies of each ballot are recorded: two on the machine and three to a removable cartridge, said Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections. When voting ends, each cartridge is taken to one of five zones in the county, where the results are loaded into a laptop. Those results are transferred by secure data lines to the county.

    Kimball Brace, president of the consulting firm Election Data Services, said it's possible the fault lies with the software that tallies the votes from individual cartridges rather than the machines or the cartridges themselves.

    Either way, he said, such tallying software ought to have a way to ensure that the totals don't exceed the number of voters.

    Damschroder said the malfunction occurred when one machine's cartridge was plugged into a laptop computer and generated faulty numbers in several races. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred, but he would not rule out a problem with the laptop's software. An investigation was continuing, he said.

    The county has about 3,000 of the machines, which first were used in the 1992 election and will be replaced by 2006 to comply with federal law. Damschroder has ruled out a problem with software at the central vote collection office, as well as tampering.

    "We tested if there was some possibility of human intervention and it was not possible," Damschroder said.

    Damschroder said people who had seen poll results on the election board's Web site called to point out the discrepancy. The error would have been discovered when the official count for the election is performed later this month, he said.

    The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine.

    Other electronic machines used in Ohio do not use the type of computer cartridge involved in the error, state officials say.

    But in Perry County, a punch-card system reported about 75 more votes than there are voters in one precinct. Workers tried to cancel the count when the tabulator broke down midway through, but the machine instead double-counted an unknown number in the first batch. The mistake will be corrected, officials say.

    Meanwhile, in San Francisco, a glitch occurred with software designed by Election Systems & Software Inc. for the city's new "ranked-choice voting," in which voters list their top three choices for municipal offices. If no candidate gets a majority of first-place votes outright, voters' second and third-place preferences are then distributed among candidates who weren't eliminated in the first round. (Related story: 'Ranked-choice voting' experiment hits tech snag)

    When the San Francisco Department of Elections tried a test run Wednesday, some of the votes didn't get counted. The problem was attributed to a programming glitch that limited how much data could be accepted, a threshold that did not account for high voter turnout.
    Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

    The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.

    O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.

    The letter went out the day before Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, was set to qualify Diebold as one of three firms eligible to sell upgraded electronic voting machines to Ohio counties in time for the 2004 election.

    Blackwell's announcement is still in limbo because of a court challenge over the fairness of the selection process by a disqualified bidder, Sequoia Voting Systems.

    In his invitation letter, O'Dell asked guests to consider donating or raising up to $10,000 each for the federal account that the state GOP will use to help Bush and other federal candidates - money that legislative Democratic leaders charged could come back to benefit Blackwell.

    Get the latest Cleveland, OH local news, sports, weather, entertainment and breaking updates on cleveland.com


    Alone in Ohio, officials cited homeland security
    By Erica Solvig
    Enquirer staff writer

    LEBANON - Citing concerns about potential terrorism, Warren County officials locked down the county administration building on election night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation awaited Ohio's returns.

    County officials say they took the action Tuesday night for homeland security, although state elections officials said they didn't know of any other Ohio county that closed off its elections board. Media organizations protested, saying it violated the law and the public's rights. The Warren results, delayed for hours because of long lines that extended voting past the scheduled close of polls, were part of the last tallies that helped clinch President Bush's re-election.

    "The media should have been permitted into the area where there was counting," Enquirer attorney Jack Greiner said. "This is a process that should be done in complete transparency and it wasn't."

    Warren County Emergency Services Director Frank Young said he had recommended increased security based on information received from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau of Investigation in recent weeks.

    Commissioners made the security decisions in a closed-door meeting last week, but didn't publicize the restrictions that were made until after polls closed.

    "If we were going to make a judgment, we wanted to err on the side of caution," Commissioner Pat South said Thursday. "... Hindsight is 20-20. There was never any intent to exclude the press.

    "We were trying to protect security."

    WCPO-TV (Channel 9) News Director Bob Morford said he's "never seen anything like it." When he first heard about Warren County's building restrictions, he said he understood concerns that too many people could make the counting process "a circus." But he said it's never been a problem in the past, and that the county could have set up a security checkpoint and had people show identification.

    "Frankly, we consider that a red herring," Morford said of the county's "homeland security" reason. "That's something that's put up when you don't know what else to put up to keep us out."

    James Lee, spokesman with the Ohio Secretary of State's Office in Columbus, said Thursday he hasn't heard of any situations similar to Warren County's building restrictions. He said general security concerns are decided at the local levels.

    Other counties, such as Butler County, let people watch ballot checkers through a window.

    Typically, the Warren County commissioners' room is set up as a gathering place for people to watch the votes come in. But that wasn't done this year.

    And despite being told that there would be an area with telephones set up for the media, those who tried to get into the building on Justice Drive were stopped by a county employee who stood guard outside. After journalists challenged the restriction, reporters were allowed into the building's lobby - two floors below the elections office.

    A representative of The Associated Press, which had stringers at every Ohio board of elections site, said no such election-night access problems were reported outside of Warren County.

    County Prosecutor Rachel Hutzel said commissioners "were within their rights" to restrict building access.

    Having reporters and photographers around could have interfered with the count, she said.

    Breaking Cincinnati news, traffic, weather and local headlines from The Cincinnati Enquirer newspaper.


    ----

    Palm Beach County Logs 88,000 More Votes Than Voters


    According to the official election results posted on the Palm Beach County election website, 542,835 ballots were cast for a presidential candidate while only 454,427 voters turned out for the election (including absentee). This leaves a discrepancy of 88,408 votes cast for the presidential candidates.

    Palm Beach County's supervisor of elections is Theresa LePore who is known for the 2000 Presidential Election and the notorious "butterfly ballot" that caused confusion among seniors and other Floridians.

    Other election oddities occurred throughout Florida with some counties registering a 400% increase in expected voter turnout among Republicans while Democrats supposedly experienced a -60% decline in expected support within certain counties. The 50+ counties experiencing the high percentage fluctuations in expected turnout used optical scan voting machines on November 2nd.

    Vote discrepancies were also found in Gahanna, Ohio which gave an extra 4,000 votes to President Bush. The error was explained away by Franklin County administrators as a "glitch" in the electronic voting system.

    ----

    Broward machines count backward
    By Eliot Kleinberg
    Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

    FORT LAUDERDALE ? It had to happen. Things were just going too smoothly.

    Early Thursday, as Broward County elections officials wrapped up after a long day of canvassing votes, something unusual caught their eye. Tallies should go up as more votes are counted. That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone . . . down.

    Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward.

    Why a voting system would be designed to count backward was a mystery to Broward County Mayor Ilene Lieberman. She was on the phone late Wednesday with Omaha-based Elections Systems and Software.

    Bad numbers showed up only in running tallies through the day, not the final one. Final tallies were reached by cross-checking machine totals, and officials are confident they are accurate.

    The glitch affected only the 97,434 absentee ballots, Broward Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes said. All were placed in their own precincts and optical scanners totaled votes, which were then fed to a main computer.

    That's where the counting problems surfaced. They affected only votes for constitutional amendments 4 through 8, because they were on the only page that was exactly the same on all county absentee ballots. The same software is used in Martin and Miami-Dade counties; Palm Beach and St. Lucie counties use different companies.

    The problem cropped up in the 2002 election. Lieberman said ES&S told her it had sent software upgrades to the Florida Secretary of State's office, but that the office kept rejecting the software. The state said that's not true. Broward elections officials said they had thought the problem was fixed.

    Secretary of State spokeswoman Jenny Nash said all counties using this system had been told that such problems would occur if a precinct is set up in a way that would allow votes to get above 32,000. She said Broward should have split the absentee ballots into four separate precincts to avoid that and that a Broward elections employee since has admitted to not doing that.

    But Lieberman said later, "No election employee has come to the canvassing board and made the statements that Jenny Nash said occurred."

    Late Thursday, ES&S issued a statement reiterating that it learned of the problems in 2002 and said the software upgrades would be submitted to Hood's office next year. The company was working with the counties it serves to make sure ballots don't exceed capacity and said no other counties reported similar problems.

    "While the county bears the ultimate responsibility for programming the ballot and structuring the precincts, we . . . regret any confusion the discrepancy in early vote totals has caused," the statement said.

    After several calls to the company during the day were not returned, an ES&S spokeswoman said late Thursday she did not know whether ES&S contacted the secretary of state two years ago or whether the software is designed to count backward.

    While the problem surfaced two years ago, it was under a different Br oward elections supervisor and a different secretary of state. Snipes said she had not known about the 2002 snafu.

    Later, Lieberman said, "I am not passing judgments and I'm not pointing a finger." But she said that if ES&S is found to be at fault, actions might include penalizing ES&S or even defaulting on its contract.



    ----

    Computer Loses More Than 4,000 Early Votes

    Jacksonville, N.C. -- More than 4,500 Carteret County votes have been lost because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did.

    Scattered other problems may change results in local races around the state.

    Carteret officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, said each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes.

    When they tried to store more than 7,500 early votes in the unit, some 4,530 were lost.

    Jack Gerbel, president and owner of Dublin-Calif.-based UniLect, told The Associated Press on Thursday that the county's elections board was given incorrect information.

    There is no way to retrieve the missing data, he said.

    "That is the situation and it's definitely terrible," he said.

    In a letter to county officials, he blamed the mistake on confusion over which model of the voting machines were in use in Carteret County.

    But he also noted that the machines flash a warning message when there is no more room for storing ballots.

    "Evidently, this message was either ignored or overlooked," he wrote.

    County election officials were meeting with State Board of Elections Executive Director Gary Bartlett and other state elections officials on Thursday and did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.

    Expecting the greater capacity, the county only used one unit during the early voting period.

    "If we had known, we would have had the units to handle the votes," said Sue Verdon, secretary of the county election board.

    The loss of the votes didn't appear to change the outcome of the county races, but that wasn't the issue for Alecia Williams of Beaufort, who voted on one of the final days of the early voting period.

    "The point is not whether the votes would have changed things, it's that they didn't get counted at all," Williams said.

    Two statewide races remained undecided Thursday.

    The candidates for superintendent of public instruction are divided by about 6,700 votes out of 3.2 million cast.

    Candidates for agriculture commissioner are separated by just hundreds of votes, according to unofficial figures.

    The state deadline for official totals is Tuesday.

    Still, it would be hard to say what affect those races might feel from changes in individual counties.

    The deputy director of the State Board of Elections, Johnnie McLean, said Thursday that the state still must tally 73,118 provisional ballots, plus those from four counties that have not yet submitted their provisionals.

    Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    ----

    Privatizing the Vote
    by Thom Hartmann

    Thom Hartmann (thom at thomhartmann.com) is a Project Censored Award-winning best-selling author and host of a nationally syndicated daily progressive talk show. www.thomhartmann .com His most recent books are "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight," "Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights," "We The People: A Call To Take Back America," and "What Would Jefferson Do?: A Return To Democracy."

    The hot story in the Blogosphere is that the "erroneous" exit polls that showed Kerry carrying Florida and Ohio (among other states) weren't erroneous at all - it was the numbers produced by paperless voting machines that were wrong, and Kerry actually won. As more and more analysis is done of what may (or may not) be the most massive election fraud in the history of the world, however, it's critical that we keep the largest issue at the forefront at all time: Why are We The People allowing private, for-profit corporations, answerable only to their officers and boards of directors, and loyal only to agendas and politicians that will enhance their profitability, to handle our votes?

    Maybe Florida went for Kerry, maybe for Bush. Over time - and through the efforts of some very motivated investigative reporters - we may well find out (Bev Harris of www.blackboxvoting.org just filed what may be the largest Freedom of Information Act [FOIA} filing in history), and bloggers and investigative reporters are discovering an odd discrepancy in exit polls being largely accurate in paper-ballot states and oddly inaccurate in touch-screen electronic voting states Even raw voter analyses are showing extreme oddities in touch-screen-run Florida, and eagle-eyed bloggers are finding that news organizations are retroactively altering their exit polls to coincide with what the machines ultimately said.

    But in all the discussion about voting machines, let's never forget the concept of the commons, because this usurpation is the ultimate felony committed by conservatives this year.

    At the founding of this nation, we decided that there were important places to invest our tax (then tariff) dollars, and those were the things that had to do with the overall "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" of all of us. Over time, these commons - in which we all make tax investments and for which we all hold ultimate responsibility - have come to include our police and fire services; our military and defense; our roads and skyways; our air, waters and national parks; and the safety of our food and drugs.

    But the most important of all the commons in which we've invested our hard-earned tax dollars is our government itself. It's owned by us, run by us (through our elected representatives), answerable to us, and most directly responsible for stewardship of our commons.

    And the commons through which we regulate the commons of our government is our vote.

    About two years ago, I wrote a story for these pages, "If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control The Voting Machines," that exposed how Senator Chuck Hagel had, before stepping down and running for the U.S. Senate in Nebraska, been the head of the voting machine company (now ES&S) that had just computerized Nebraska's vote. The Washington Post (1/13/1997) said Hagel's "Senate victory against an incumbent Democratic governor was the major Republican upset in the November election." According to Bev Harris, Hagel won virtually every demographic group, including many largely black communities that had never before voted Republican. Hagel was the first Republican in 24 years to win a Senate seat in Nebraska, nearly all on unauditable machines he had just sold the state. And in all probability, Hagel run for President in 2008.

    In another, later article I wrote at the request of MoveOn.org and which they mailed to their millions of members, I noted that in Georgia - another state that went all-electronic - "USA Today reported on Nov. 3, 2002, 'In Georgia, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll shows Democratic Sen. Max Cleland with a 49%-to-44% lead over Republican Rep. Saxby Chambliss. 'Cox News Service, based in Atlanta, reported just after the election (Nov. 7) that, "Pollsters may have goofed" because 'Republican Rep. Saxby Chambliss defeated incumbent Democratic Sen. Max Cleland by a margin of 53 to 46 percent. The Hotline, a political news service, recalled a series of polls Wednesday showing that Chambliss had been ahead in none of them.'" Nearly every vote in the state was on an electronic machine with no audit trail.

    In the years since those first articles appeared, Bev Harris has published her book on the subject ("Black Box Voting"), including the revelation of her finding the notorious "Rob Georgia" folder on Diebold's FTP site just after Cleland's loss there; Lynn Landes has done some groundbreaking research, particularly her new investigation of the Associated Press, as have Rebecca Mercuri and David Dill. There's a new video out on the topic, Votergate, available at www.votergate.tv.

    Congressman Rush Holt introduced a bill into Congress requiring a voter-verified paper ballot be produced by all electronic voting machines, and it's been co-sponsored by a majority of the members of the House of Representatives. The two-year battle fought by Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay to keep it from coming to a vote, thus insuring that there will be no possible audit of the votes of about a third of the 2004 electorate, has fueled the flames of conspiracy theorists convinced Republican ideologues - now known to be willing to lie in television advertising - would extend their "ends justifies the means" morality to stealing the vote "for the better good of the country" they think single-party Republican rule will bring.

    Most important, though, the rallying cry of the emerging "honest vote" movement must become: Get Corporations Out Of Our Vote!

    Why have we let corporations into our polling places, locations so sacred to democracy that in many states even international election monitors and reporters are banned? Why are we allowing corporations to exclusively handle our vote, in a secret and totally invisible way? Particularly a private corporation founded, in one case, by a family that believes the Bible should replace the Constitution; in another case run by one of Ohio's top Republicans; and in another case partly owned by Saudi investors?

    Of all the violations of the commons - all of the crimes against We The People and against democracy in our great and historic republic - this is the greatest. Our vote is too important to outsource to private corporations.

    It's time that the USA - like most of the rest of the world - returns to paper ballots, counted by hand by civil servants (our employees) under the watchful eye of the party faithful. Even if it takes two weeks to count the vote, and we have to just go, until then, with the exit polls of the news agencies. It worked just fine for nearly 200 years in the USA, and it can work again.

    When I lived in Germany, they took the vote the same way most of the world does - people fill in hand-marked ballots, which are hand-counted by civil servants taking a week off from their regular jobs, watched over by volunteer representatives of the political parties. It's totally clean, and easily audited. And even though it takes a week or more to count the vote (and costs nothing more than a bit of overtime pay for civil servants), the German people know the election results the night the polls close because the news media's exit polls, for two generations, have never been more than a tenth of a percent off.

    We could have saved billions that have instead been handed over to ES&S, Diebold, and other private corporations.

    Or, if we must have machines, let's have them owned by local governments, maintained and programmed by civil servants answerable to We The People, using open-source code and disconnected from modems, that produce a voter-verified printed ballot, with all results published on a precinct-by-precinct basis.

    As Thomas Paine wrote at this nation's founding, "The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery."

    Only when We The People reclaim the commons of our vote can we again be confident in the integrity of our electoral process in the world's oldest and most powerful democratic republic.

    http://progressivetrail.org/articles...Hartmann.shtml[img][/img]
  • Balanc3
    Platinum Poster
    • Jun 2004
    • 1278

    #2
    Your still Dilirious :wink:
    JourneyDeep .into the sound

    Comment

    • neoee
      Platinum Poster
      • Jun 2004
      • 1266

      #3
      The founding fathers must be turning in thier graves. :?
      "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

      Comment

      • toasty
        Sir Toastiness
        • Jun 2004
        • 6585

        #4
        I blame terrible exit pollsters, not the voting machines themselves -- the machines represent the only poll that ultimately matters...

        Comment

        • neoee
          Platinum Poster
          • Jun 2004
          • 1266

          #5
          toasty- this was not prompted by the exit polls, althought in other countries when exit polls differ from election results fraud is suspected and investigations launched.

          Election machines (electronic) were known to be untrustable from the beginning so much so that the Las Vegas gambling comission who was asked to review the machines for certification for their elections, elected not to because of security concerns. Blackboxvoting.org made it clear they were going to investigate *regardless of who won* prior the election as these machines were so insecure.

          How can you blame exit polls when in one county there were ~609 voters yet 3000+ votes for Bush. This is simple arithmatic(sp?). Again this isn't the only example. I could go on with all I've heard but it would just be a waste of time since the information is out there.

          I just feel to blame the exit polls is well... a bit ignorant. I guess we will just see how things turn out on Dec 13th.
          "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin

          Comment

          • Balanc3
            Platinum Poster
            • Jun 2004
            • 1278

            #6
            These machines are on a windows based OS if that helps? Plus the thought of no paper trail also bothers people. Electronic voting sucks, we should all use paper... all I had to do on my ballot was complete an arrow with a sharpie. How hard is that? But then again we find the machines that collect the paper ballot with 200+ planted ballots per hopper in Pennsylvania. Guess there is no way reduce the number of fraudelent votes without standardized voting.
            JourneyDeep .into the sound

            Comment

            • Baltasar
              Fresh Peossy
              • Nov 2004
              • 43

              #7
              I really can?t understand how did Bush win
              www.djbaltasar.com

              Comment

              • palmer
                Retired or Simply Important
                • Jun 2004
                • 5383

                #8
                Originally posted by Balanc3
                Your still Dilirious :wink:
                you're*

                I've read many of YOUR posts and I'm completely amazed
                at YOUR lack of proper grammar. How in the fuck do you expect
                anyone to accept or even consider your point of view or further yet
                be insulted by you ?

                I want an investigation.
                front page of slashdot
                Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters. Timely news source for technology related news with a heavy slant towards Linux and Open Source issues.
                todayistomorrow
                art direction | design | animation

                Comment

                • asdf_admin
                  i use to be important
                  • Jun 2004
                  • 12798

                  #9
                  ^^^ Top Headline Today ... Halo 2 ...

                  That is all I care about. As long as Trigger Happy Bush does not take that away from me ... I am stoked.

                  All Politicians sucks. Blue, Red, or White. Each is a crook, a scum bag, and an evil bastard. With all the issues within the USA, I have never heard one candidate just say "my agenda is to focus on the USA, we are really fucked up."

                  so fucking sad.
                  dead, yet alive.

                  Comment

                  • krelm
                    Addiction started
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 437

                    #10
                    Originally posted by asdf_admin
                    All Politicians sucks. Blue, Red, or White. Each is a crook, a scum bag, and an evil bastard. With all the issues within the USA, I have never heard one candidate just say "my agenda is to focus on the USA, we are really fucked up."

                    so fucking sad.


                    Would an honest politician ever make it to prominence in the US?

                    Regarding e-voting - what a crock of shit. Why is simple paper voting so complicated? It took me *maybe* 5 minutes to fill in the little boxes in my absentee ballot with a pen. Is it so complicated? The more we try to automate the process of actually voting, the more room there is for error and fraud. There were so many numerous problems with voting this time around (even after all of the red flags went up in 2000) that I don't see why people would even consider keeping it computerized.

                    And the whole idea of the coding for computerized voting being proprietary property of specific companies should be absolutely appalling - no matter which party you vote for. Make the code available for all to see - that's the only way people will trust it.
                    Broken Symmetry on mcast.mercuryserver.com

                    www.krelmatrix.com - archives & mixes
                    www.myspace.com/satansfluffer - general tomfoolery

                    "It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"
                    - Stimutacs

                    Comment

                    • toasty
                      Sir Toastiness
                      • Jun 2004
                      • 6585

                      #11
                      Originally posted by neoee
                      toasty- this was not prompted by the exit polls, althought in other countries when exit polls differ from election results fraud is suspected and investigations launched.

                      Election machines (electronic) were known to be untrustable from the beginning so much so that the Las Vegas gambling comission who was asked to review the machines for certification for their elections, elected not to because of security concerns. Blackboxvoting.org made it clear they were going to investigate *regardless of who won* prior the election as these machines were so insecure.

                      How can you blame exit polls when in one county there were ~609 voters yet 3000+ votes for Bush. This is simple arithmatic(sp?). Again this isn't the only example. I could go on with all I've heard but it would just be a waste of time since the information is out there.

                      I just feel to blame the exit polls is well... a bit ignorant. I guess we will just see how things turn out on Dec 13th.
                      For what it's worth, I would love for there to be some reason to invalidate this election, if only because it would restore some faith in my follow Americans who would otherwise appear to have elected the single worst president I'm aware of to a second term. Alas, I am not a conspiracy theorist.

                      It is certainly sketchy, no doubt about it, and I truly hope there is some reason to bounce W. For the time being, however, trying to figure out how to protect my livelihood with Bush in office is a better use of my time than bitching and moaning.

                      Comment

                      • asdf_admin
                        i use to be important
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 12798

                        #12
                        ^^^ Go to Canada.
                        dead, yet alive.

                        Comment

                        • Balanc3
                          Platinum Poster
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 1278

                          #13
                          Originally posted by palmer
                          Originally posted by Balanc3
                          Your still Dilirious :wink:
                          you're*

                          I've read many of YOUR posts and I'm completely amazed
                          at YOUR lack of proper grammar. How in the fuck do you expect
                          anyone to accept or even consider your point of view or further yet
                          be insulted by you ?
                          Sorry Palmer.. you want to get serious about it, I didn't even spell Delirious properly. Sometimes when your on the run, you don't have time to proof-read each and every post. So if you like I'll spell check, grammar check, and properly cite each new post I create in the MLA fucking format.

                          what?
                          http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm ?
                          Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters. Timely news source for technology related news with a heavy slant towards Linux and Open Source issues.
                          JourneyDeep .into the sound

                          Comment

                          Working...