Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

[toasty]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

what happens after the commercial real estate collapse that is about to happen??

Not specific to your substantive comment here, but just in general, are you like one of those guys that stand on the corner wearing an oversized sandwich board that says "THE END IS NEAR" or some shit like that? One of the mods needs to change your title to "Prophet of Doom" or "Resident Soothsayer" or something.

Also at what point do we stop blaming Bush and accept responsibility for the new actions by Obama? Remember this is not Bush's watch anymore and what happens from here on out is on Obama

There will certainly come a time where this is appropriate and as to certain things, that time is already here. Generally speaking, though, it's asking a lot to expect Obama to unfuck everything that Bush has done in a week. 8 years of wrong-headed policies allows you to build up an awful lot of steam in the wrong direction, and you can't just pretend that didn't happen. Much though I would love to just have a clean break, we're going to feel the sting of some of those policies for a long time. To use a poker analogy, if you're taking over for a guy who's got the short stack at the table, you wouldn't expect to knock everyone else out within a couple of hands, nor would you want to try.

[runningman]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

no you live in Obama land and I live on planet earth. What I meant by the commercial real estate is that retail is dead and when those buildings are empty they will stop paying the loan for the buildings.

I also take that as a compliment since their hasn't been anything good to happen in a long time. You folks actually believe that Obama can change this when he has brought in the same old hacks that he said he was going to change. It is business as usual in Washington he didn't't change anything.

[toasty]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

no you live in Obama land and I live on planet earth. What I meant by the commercial real estate is that retail is dead and when those buildings are empty they will stop paying the loan for the buildings.

I don't even care about the substance, that's not the point of the post. The point is that it seems that an overwhelming number of your posts recently follow a common pattern where you're predicting that some awful thing is going to happen.

I guess the point of the post is this:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k[/YOUTUBE]






...and I wouldn't start patting yourself on the back too hard just yet, either.

[Miroslav]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

no you live in Obama land and I live on planet earth. What I meant by the commercial real estate is that retail is dead and when those buildings are empty they will stop paying the loan for the buildings.

I also take that as a compliment since their hasn't been anything good to happen in a long time. You folks actually believe that Obama can change this when he has brought in the same old hacks that he said he was going to change. It is business as usual in Washington he didn't't change anything.

You may end up being right and I'm not defending Obama...but do you realize that he's only been in office for ONE WEEK? Do you think you could, like, wait at least half a year to see what some of the actual results are of his policies before condemning him as an utter failure? Good god, dude

[runningman]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

Oh have you guys not been paying attention. He is going to pass the biggest bill ever proposed. I don`t care if its his first week or his 120th week. This bitch is worth $825 Billion not including pork. Basically he is adding 10% more in debt to your country.

Your Natoinal debt = $11 Trillion
Obama is adding nearly $1 Trillion in spending more.

When are you guys going to realize that you can`t put yourself more in debt to get out of debt. You can`t get $1 Trillion from the world to pay off your $11 Trillion that you are already at. Sorry to burst your bubble but whether this is his first week or 120th is irrelevant this is a MAJOR deal and I feel a lot of you guys are caught in the Obama haze and kind of throwing it under the bus.

[Miroslav]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

Oh have you guys not been paying attention. He is going to pass the biggest bill ever proposed. I don`t care if its his first week or his 120th week. This bitch is worth $825 Billion not including pork. Basically he is adding 10% more in debt to your country.

Your Natoinal debt = $11 Trillion
Obama is adding nearly $1 Trillion in spending more.

When are you guys going to realize that you can`t put yourself more in debt to get out of debt. You can`t get $1 Trillion from the world to pay off your $11 Trillion that you are already at. Sorry to burst your bubble but whether this is his first week or 120th is irrelevant this is a MAJOR deal and I feel a lot of you guys are caught in the Obama haze and kind of throwing it under the bus.

So you're saying that neither government spending not tax breaks are appropriate policy during economic depressions.

What, then, would you say is the appropriate thing to do? Would you advocate that we (society) just do nothing?

[runningman]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

Doing nothing would be the best way for free market capitalism to work. MAJOR corrections need to be made in order to move forward. Socialism is not the answer to free market capitalism problems. Sometimes you must let things fail in order to move forward. Stop coddling all this huge multinationals. What is happening right now as we speak is that the banks have now 100% taken over your country. I don't care if you believe me or not that is the way it is. Instead of the government trying to hold that banks in check it is actually the other way around. It is unfortunate but we are in the "time of quickening" where things happen faster than they ever had before. What used to take years to accomplish gets done now is weeks.

[Miroslav]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

I agree that doing nothing will let free market capitalism work. And it will work very efficiently. Unfortunately, there are some heavy prices to pay for that which may be worse than the cure.

Yes, markets ultimately need time to naturally correct themselves to a sustainable supply/demand equilibrium. But you should consider that the speed and manner in which they correct themselves makes a big difference on peoples' welfare.

Take this as an analogy: When your two engines in a commercial airliner go out, it is much better to figure out a way to glide that plane down slowly, if possible, and find a relatively safer place for it to crash-land than it is to just let nature take its course and have the plane to slam into the ground at terminal velocity.

What you are advocating is to just slam the airplane into the ground at terminal velocity. That solves your original problem and it is extremely efficient, but it also kills everyone.

Doing nothing when things are this bad allows a domino effect to take place, where the rapid collapse of one industry reverberates and brings down the next industry...and the next...and the next, until you really have virtually nothing left. The entire financial network - banks, stock markets, currencies - will vanish along with it. And you'll have a lot of starving people revolting in the streets.

[MJDub]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

^ Best analogy yet, miro.

[|Thrax|]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

Dear MoveOn member,
Did you see how many Republicans voted for President Obama's stimulus package in the House yesterday?
None. Seriously, not a single one.
Americans voted overwhelmingly for change in November. We voted for an end to the partisan bickering and political games that are destroying our politics. And President Obama bent over backwards to get House Republicans to craft a bipartisan bill, to no avail.
As the bill moves to the Senate, we need bipartisan support, or the stimulus won't pass. Senate Republicans need to know they have a clear choice: support a stimulus package that will put millions of Americans back to work, or continue to play the games that got us into this mess.
We've put together a powerful new ad to pressure the key senators.
President Obama spent hours meeting with Republican leaders personally. He made painful compromises to win them over.2

But Republicans refused to play ball. They're insisting on a plan that doesn't invest a cent in green jobs or health care or education. They just want more tax cuts for the rich and for corporations, even though that's part of what got us into this mess.3
GOP leaders will get their way—unless we can convince a few Republican senators who are on the fence.
Can you contribute $25 to our new ad to pressure swing-vote Republican senators? Click here:

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/recovery_ad.html?id=15461-14469268-Tixdu3x&t=4

Thanks for all you do.
–Noah, Daniel, Anna, Carrie and the rest of the team
Sources:
1. "House Passes Stimulus Plan Despite G.O.P. Opposition," The New York Times, January 28, 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/us/politics/29obama.html

"Final Vote Results for Roll Call 46," Office of the Clerk, House of Representatives, January 28, 2009

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll046.xml

2. "Obama Tries to Bolster Republican Support For Stimulus," NewsHour, January 27, 2009

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51121&id=15461-14469268-Tixdu3x&t=5

3. "Factbox: U.S. House Republican alternative stimulus proposal," Reuters, January 28, 2009

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=51123&id=15461-14469268-Tixdu3x&t=6

[DIDI]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

^^^ That sounds like our Getup. I think we copied your idea Great way for ordinary people to actually have an influence. From one of your links

But the size and substance of the stimulus package remain in dispute, as House Republicans argued that it tilted heavily toward new spending instead of tax cuts.

???????????????

New spending means building real benefits for the future , tax cuts just look like throwing money away.

Also at what point do we stop blaming Bush and accept responsibility for the new actions by Obama? Remember this is not Bush's watch anymore and what happens from here on out is on Obama

Well I think it will be a little longer than one week Bush had a whole 8 years to fuck it up.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

this reminded me of this.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=216996&title=obamas-smug-little-bubble

[runningman]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

^^^ That sounds like our Getup. I think we copied your idea Great way for ordinary people to actually have an influence. From one of your links
???????????????

New spending means building real benefits for the future , tax cuts just look like throwing money away.

Well I think it will be a little longer than one week Bush had a whole 8 years to fuck it up.

I understand that he can't undo everything Bush did in 1 week. But to pass a stimulus of $1 Trillion in your first week is what is worrying me. That would mean that in the last 6 months your country has added $2 Trillion to its national debt!!!

Again Miro your analogy is a little to melodramatic. Things fail every day and the US is repeating mistakes from the last great depression by inflating the currency. This will drive us faster into the ground than parachute us in.

[Shpira]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

Miro is completely right. . .the laws of economics clearly allow anyone to see that a government intervention is the best way for us to see a recovery as soon as possible. . .Although, I would like to add that since the world economy is so globalized a more coordinated effort between governments may be needed or we will end up with tariffs.

[runningman]

Re: Obama's $825 Billion Stimulus

well I wish you guys the best of luck since it has never happened in the past.