Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

[Steve Graham]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

instead of laying a guilt trip on women for choosing not to breast feed, maybe they should "attack" the selfish mothers to be that still smoke and drink whilst pregnant.. seeing a pregnant woman lighting up makes me fucking angry

[Dhar_2]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

hey we've all been there!

i dont see what the problem is!

[DIDI]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

^^^ How long did you be breast feed for ??

instead of laying a guilt trip on women for choosing not to breast feed, maybe they should "attack" the selfish mothers to be that still smoke and drink whilst pregnant.. seeing a pregnant woman lighting up makes me fucking angry

I think they probably would do that anyway But while we're at it lets also stop the guys who think that once they have done their bit, they can smoke around pregnant women And there are probably more of them simply because more men smoke.

I'm obviously a staunch supporter of breast feeding, but I certainly wouldn't look down on any women who was unable to do it. I'm sorry that happens to you Toasty.

[feather]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

I've been stunned, though, at the reaction we get from some folks when they learn that we would deign to bottle feed our child. I thought our doula was going to kick us out of the class -- it was pretty uncomfortable. The irony is that our friends -- the people that know us -- know our situation and get it. Strangers, however, greet this news with either a look that conveys that they think that we're endangering the health of our child, or a look that lets us know how pathetic we are, often accompanied by admonitions that we MUST breastfeed. When did it become socially acceptable to browbeat someone you've just met for the unforgivable sin of using formula?

[/rant]

Because like any other fanatical group, everyone gets up on their high horses. Nothing more dangerous than people who believe they're right.

[threehills]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

We just finished repoduction and women's health in med school, and in defense of Toasty and his wife and every other woman who chooses NOT to breast feed.... While breast feeding is known to be better than forumal (signifcantly better, for both mother and child) its a total bitch to do. Every two hours or so the breasts will start to ache painfully if not drained. If you dont feed or pump them the may start to leak. Try going to a busniness meeting in that situation. Sorry, can you guys wait while I go pump my milk out. Sorry, gotta go change my shirt as my breasts are leaking again.

What does insurance do to help? Provides 1 hand pump. Do you konw how much work that is to handpump the milk out? Takes like 20 minutes. The machines can do it much more quickly and easy, but you are going to have to pay a few hundred out of pocket for that.

What does our government do to promote it? Give discounts on forumula (WIC). Fricken brilliant. Rather than given incentives to women to help compensate for the time and effort of breast feeding, they take the easy way out and just hand out forumla.

Its a frustrating situation and choice for every woman. People just need to keep their mouths shut about what another woman should do and let her decide what works for her, her lifstyle and her child.

[DIDI]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Its a frustrating situation and choice for every woman. People just need to keep their mouths shut about what another woman should do and let her decide what works for her, her lifstyle and her child

.^^^ Spot on !!!. But breast feeding does not have to be that hard for every women and for the majority of women it is isn't . !!

Feather, The human race is indeed very dangerous

Breast feeding women = fanatics .

As usual people judge on a small group. Bering told feeding your baby is obscene might make some women angrier than others.

[feather]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

They're fanatics the moment they choose to impinge their beliefs or lifestyles upon others, or refuse to accept any compromise or think the world is after them.

[DIDI]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

They're fanatics the moment they choose to impinge their beliefs or lifestyles upon others, or refuse to accept any compromise or think the world is after them.

Everybody tries to persuade people to their own view. Some just try harder . That would not be my description of a fanatic. But we are allowed to disagree!!

These women are not physically harming anyone , on the contrary. This whole thing has been blown out of all proportion.

[Miroslav]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

But these women can breastfeed all they want. No one's taking it from them. And they have plenty of other options for displaying their breastfeeding pictures on the internet, if that's what gets them excited. It's not like this is a 1960s-style civil rights drama where society is systematically segregating and discriminating against women based on their decision to breastfeed. I would safely wager that individuals who work at and manage Facebook have no personal agenda against breastfeeding.

[feather]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Ultimately Facebook exists on the internet. It's very existence hinges on the fact that it connects people of all races and cultures across geographical boundaries through the internet. When it sets its no nudity policy, it has to cater to the world, not just America or Australia or Asia. Naturally it caters its policies to the lowest denominator, and this is not even enforced until someone else flags the pictures or posts.

So someone found the pictures offensive, Facebook exercised its user agreement and removed those pictures. How difficult is that to understand? Facebook performed a service based on someone else's feedback, so why call out Facebook for being the executioner? It's that someone else who's the issue.

And secondly, Facebook is privately owned. Nobody pays them or has shares in them. Facebook doesn't have to answer to anybody. We use Facebook services as a privilege bestowed upon us when we register, but these privileges can be restricted or removed anytime. Facebook doesn't owe anything to anyone.

If these breast feeding women took a step back and tried to understand where Facebook is in the bigger picture of the internet, as opposed to living in their own lactating world and crying foul over every small thing that infringes upon their precious beliefs, they'll see how juvenile this is. It's such a typical reaction to think everything revolves around 'me.' Someone did this to 'me,' someone is against what 'I' stand for. The world is against 'me.' Hello, the world is a lot bigger than a pair of lactating tits.

Which brings me to the comment about them being fanatics. Once you take up a cause, you run the risk of feeling justified and self righteous, you run the risk of feeling marginalised or entertain a polarised point of view which turns into a case of you're either with us, or against us. You project your own beliefs and issues onto everything that happens to you, as though everything is personally relevant.

[threehills]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

If these breast feeding women took a step back and tried to understand where Facebook is in the bigger picture of the internet, as opposed to living in their own lactating world and crying foul over every small thing that infringes upon their precious beliefs, they'll see how juvenile this is. It's such a typical reaction to think everything revolves around 'me.' Someone did this to 'me,' someone is against what 'I' stand for. The world is against 'me.' Hello, the world is a lot bigger than a pair of lactating tits.

Awesome.

But tell me more about this "lactating world" I am intrigued.

[DIDI]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Ultimately Facebook exists on the internet. It's very existence hinges on the fact that it connects people of all races and cultures across geographical boundaries through the internet. When it sets its no nudity policy, it has to cater to the world, not just America or Australia or Asia. Naturally it caters its policies to the lowest denominator, and this is not even enforced until someone else flags the pictures or posts.

So someone found the pictures offensive, Facebook exercised its user agreement and removed those pictures. How difficult is that to understand? Facebook performed a service based on someone else's feedback, so why call out Facebook for being the executioner? It's that someone else who's the issue.

And secondly, Facebook is privately owned. Nobody pays them or has shares in them. Facebook doesn't have to answer to anybody. We use Facebook services as a privilege bestowed upon us when we register, but these privileges can be restricted or removed anytime. Facebook doesn't owe anything to anyone.

This is all true and balanced and nobody has denied that. But anyone has the right to protest against any private or public entity they like! Whether I agree with their protest. I support that right of protest

If these breast feeding women took a step back and tried to understand where Facebook is in the bigger picture of the internet, as opposed to living in their own lactating world and crying foul over every small thing that infringes upon their precious beliefs, they'll see how juvenile this is. It's such a typical reaction to think everything revolves around 'me.' Someone did this to 'me,' someone is against what 'I' stand for. The world is against 'me.' Hello, the world is a lot bigger than a pair of lactating tits.

This is highly offensive. Of course there is more and I'm sure everyone is living it, but the discussion was about breast feeding. You might like to run that by three hills as well. he would probably be able to tell you that when a women is breast feeding the lactating tits are a a huge part of a women's life. In fact it you read his post he made that pretty clear.!! What started as a debate on what Face book could or could not do has turned, in some cases, to an attack on breast feeding women.

Which brings me to the comment about them being fanatics. Once you take up a cause, you run the risk of feeling justified and self righteous, you run the risk of feeling marginalised or entertain a polarised point of view which turns into a case of you're either with us, or against us. You project your own beliefs and issues onto everything that happens to you, as though everything is personally relevant.

Well, you are actually describing the attitude YOU are projecting at the moment, labelling people fanatics because YOU don't agree .

Breast feeding is a a wonderful thing, which because of the lives we lead has actually become increasingly difficult. There is the other side of the coin to the coin, well expressed in this thread, that it is something a bit grubby , not to be undertaken in public areas. Even although personally I would not want to breastfeed in public, I am amazed that it is viewed this way.

Miroslav, women CAN"T breast feed anywhere they like, or want. . If you actually look at history, for a normal human function, it has always been a major social problem for women one way or the other. Which makes the original issue all the more interesting.


BTW. Back to the issue!! I don't actually agree with this protest but I do understand it, . Just as I understand that Facebook has the right to take down anything off it's own site .


Well Ok maybe don't run it past Threehills

[feather]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Hey that's not true, I called them fanatics because of their strongly held beliefs with no quarter for compromise, and their myopic view and taking everything personally.

Which is what dictionary.com describes as

fa·nat·ic
n. A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

[DIDI]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Hey that's not true, I called them fanatics because of their strongly held beliefs with no quarter for compromise, and their myopic view and taking everything personally.

Which is what dictionary.com describes as

You don't have enough evidence to uphold that dictionary definition. You don't know what their other views may be or whether they are taking it personally or standing up for strongly held personal views! Two different things and I respect standing up for strongly held personal views!

My issue is probably the small minded people who reported these pics. Probably the ones that used to wank over bare breasts in National Geographic !!

[feather]

Re: Facebook Breastfeeding Dispute

Well from my point of view, what Facebook did was impartial.

Facebook spokesman Barry Schnitt said the company's guidelines regarding exposed flesh allow most breast-feeding photos. However, Facebook draws the line at a visible nipple or areola, he said. Facebook also nixes pictures showing the gluteal cleft.Facebook doesn't generally go looking for nudity, but it does respond quickly when someone on the site flags another person's photo as inappropriate. Schnitt said the policies were instituted years ago, when Facebook was much smaller, but they reflect common practices on mainstream Web sites.

But the reaction it has caused, is certainly not impartial.

I'm just quoting from the msnbc.com article:

Roman responded by starting a Facebook group called "Hey, Facebook, breast-feeding is not obscene!"

"I think it's time we all get over this notion that women's breasts are dangerous and harmful for children to see," she said. So she organized a Facebook protest last weekend against the site's policies, which she believes are arbitrarily enforced and discriminate against women.

At Facebook's headquarters in Palo Alto, California, 23-year-old mom Heather Farley, who was visiting from her home in Provo, Utah, led a real-world nurse-in to complement the online event.About 10 women showed up to breast-feed their babies outside the front door, drawing attention from local media if not Facebook employees, who were scarce on that Saturday after Christmas.

Which brings me back to my point that what Facebook did was not personal nor anti-breastfeeding at all. These women chose to turn that into a cause because they react personally to what happened.

We have two different agendas here: Facebook admisnistering a no nudity policy, and these women saying Facebook should get over breast feeding and not 'discriminate' women.

Facebook isn't discriminating women. It's protecting a convivial environment that has to take into account people with different sensitibilities, some of whom find any hint of flesh an affront.

What Facebook did is no different from any form of moderation that takes place on forum boards like MS, except Facebook has to widen its scope to include more people when handling such issues.

I'm not anti-breastfeeding and I'm certainly not anti-tits, but this is simply an arbirtary decision that Facebook had the right to execute, taken out of context, and used as a flag for these people to rally against.