The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

[CactusBeats]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Playing "scary music" is fairly common in any type of Film, Documentary or TV Programme. That DJ Shadow, Mutual Slump appeared on everything from Documentaries about Cot Death, Torture in Iraq even X factor. Its not just Conspiracy Movies.

Point well taken. I don't really need to concede this either as I didn't say it was unique to conspiracy theory doc's in general. I agree with you here.

You keep spouting off but when it comes to specifics you dont reply. Do you not find it strange how the US Government have failed to show any photographic evidence of a plane crashing into The Pentagon on 9/11 ?

I only tend to put my effort in where I have either strong feelings and can counter an argument I disagree with and where I make the judgment it is worth my while to take the time out to speak.

No I don't find it strange that you don't see specific footage of a plane flying into the Penatgon. I do see plenty of photographic evidence in this thread of a plane having flown into the Pentagon. Please note the distinction.

In addition, The Pentagon is surrounded by two multi-lane boulevards; US 1 which is also Jefferson Davis Hwy and Virginia Route 110, Virginia Route 27 which is also Washington Blvd., and one Interstate 395 which is anywhere from 8-10 lanes wide depending on where you are. With all those lanes & miles of traffic around, I am sure that there was more than one eyewitness to the event (see Miroslav's post of the USA Today employee). If there was a lot of conflicting eyewitness evidence, it would have come to a head already.

IMHO, conspiracy theories say less about the event they are describing than they do about the person ponying them up.

On the only other specific (recently) I can think of to which I did not reply is regarding Obama's birth certificate. I have seen a digital facsimile of the original and I don't think it necessary for him to present more. I think it might be nice if the state of Hawaii could pony up the original for court to put this nonsense to rest. I do not see that as being Obama's responsibility though as he already met the standards put forth by the authorities in charge of the election and the courts have concurred with this multiple times now.

[chunky]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

No there is plenty of evidence of an explosion of at the Pentagon and a small amount of wreckage. There US Government should be easily able to quash the Theories but they haven't. So its OK for TV stations to broadcast missiles being fire in to targets in Iraq or Israel but not one still of a low flying plane seconds before impact.

[chunky]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Do you also think its acceptable that George Bush & Dick Cheney where not interviewed by the 9/11 commission in a public domain ? The 9/11 Commission was a joke. Personally I think the Jersey Widows should of had their questions answered. All of them.

[CactusBeats]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Do you also think its acceptable that George Bush & Dick Cheney where not interviewed by the 9/11 commission in a public domain ? The 9/11 Commission was a joke. Personally I think the Jersey Widows should of had their questions answered. All of them.

No, I think Bush & Cheney should have been interviewed (even if only in private with the details to be released somewhere down the line). I would definitely feel different if I were one of the family members or attorney of 9/11 victims, but I am not. I have little interest in banging my head into a brick wall over these principles when all I will ever get is bloodied & frustrated. People in the real world have to determine where best to focus their energy and frankly this issue is way, way down the list for me.

Yes I would like a government that is open and not corrupt. The world I live in humans run the government. I cannot pick and choose which world I live in. Humans are corrupt by nature. Therefore, the gov't will at times also be closed and corrupt.

What trade-offs are you making when you spend time thinking/chatting/talking about this issue? Something to think about..

No I don't work for the gov't nor does any of my family.

[CactusBeats]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

I have better things to do than to live in the past.

[Shpira]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

^^You can only understand the present by studying the past.

I agree that the whole pentagon issue is a bit blurry...there is actually a high resolution camera filming the pentagon 24/7 across the road that would have shown the plane hitting it perfectly but the tapes have been boxed up by the state department. Why...I don't know maybe because it wasn't a plane or maybe because they shot it down...but why would they launch a missile into the pentagon? The twin towers were not enough of an excuse to go to war?
As for Bin Laden he was actually the first single individual to be targeted by a nation...I think it was 1999 the US bombed Afghanistan with 75 cruise missiles over a 1 hour period attempting to kill him.
As for the objectivity of any site or book...I think that its non existent. Everyone brings their own biases to the discussion and you can't really trust anything 100%. So if your looking for the truth about anything IMO its usually somewhere between two diametrically opposed accounts.


p.s. The 9/11 report is an absolute fucking disgrace I tried reading it and its just 100% bullshit. you can get it online anyway...they don't answer any thing. I am not talking about the conspiracy shit...I am talking about security failure. Like why the fuck was the whole thing not prevented?

[chunky]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

^Chunky exactly. A detailed photo of a commercial plane that has been retargeted to crash into the pentagon is going to be classified. It's not going to be available for the publics eyes to sit back and watch in slow motion. That does not mean it doesn't exist (moot point) and that doesn't mean our government was behind 9/11. As far as oil goes there are other threads covering this topic.


*edited does NOT mean our government is behind 9/11

So its OK for the US Government to release this photo with what you believe had an Aircraft in it but not a closer picture with a clear aircraft in it. I dont see the difference in the effect on national security if the supposed "aircraft" was in clear view.

[chunky]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

It's the US's department of defense building, who knows, something could have blown up the plane seconds before it hit the building in which case tapes and photos certainly would not be released...blowing up or shooting down a commercial airliner would certainly raise controversy and conspiracies...this is just a thought, frankly I have no idea why there are not better photos or videos.

If the US Government blew the plane up seconds before impact there would be more evidence of wreckage in front of the building on the lawn.

[chunky]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

No, I think Bush & Cheney should have been interviewed (even if only in private with the details to be released somewhere down the line). I would definitely feel different if I were one of the family members or attorney of 9/11 victims, but I am not. I have little interest in banging my head into a brick wall over these principles when all I will ever get is bloodied & frustrated. People in the real world have to determine where best to focus their energy and frankly this issue is way, way down the list for me.

Yes I would like a government that is open and not corrupt. The world I live in humans run the government. I cannot pick and choose which world I live in. Humans are corrupt by nature. Therefore, the gov't will at times also be closed and corrupt.

What trade-offs are you making when you spend time thinking/chatting/talking about this issue? Something to think about..

No I don't work for the gov't nor does any of my family.

So what your saying is basically these people should accept it and move on.

[toasty]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

There US Government should be easily able to quash the Theories but they haven't.

It is not, nor should it be, the responsibility of the government to sit around debunking every "theory" advanced as to what happened. Hey, I never saw a plane hit the Pentagon, and I'd like to advance the theory that the damage was actually caused by long dormant swamp gas ignited by an employee's cigarette butt. Come on government -- hop to it! Prove me wrong!!!

Do you also think its acceptable that George Bush & Dick Cheney where not interviewed by the 9/11 commission in a public domain ? The 9/11 Commission was a joke. Personally I think the Jersey Widows should of had their questions answered. All of them.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that the 9/11 Commission was a joke, although I think it was probably more to disguise gross incompetence than complicity. You'll be hard pressed to find someone on this board that dislikes Bush and Cheney more than I do, but none of that makes a bit of difference in assessing whether a plane hit the Pentagon. It did. Can we move on?

[floridaorange]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Moving on sounds good to me...just wanted to say that since none of us were there, none of us would truly know even if pictures were released. I pulled up several names with contact information of individuals willing to be contacted about what they saw...if you have the notion, shoot'm an email?

I too never voted for bush and was a big skeptic of him from the very beginning, let alone his reelection, but that is a new thread.

[chunky]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

It is not, nor should it be, the responsibility of the government to sit around debunking every "theory" advanced as to what happened. Hey, I never saw a plane hit the Pentagon, and I'd like to advance the theory that the damage was actually caused by long dormant swamp gas ignited by an employee's cigarette butt. Come on government -- hop to it! Prove me wrong!!!

I would say this is a bit more than "every theory". This was supposedly the biggest terrorist attack on US soil. I think you have to get the details 100%. If my house explodes while I'm at work, I know there will be a thorough investigation into why it happened and i imagine the investigator would not be hindered in the investigation. 9/11 should of been the most thorough investigation in American History and answered all the questions.

[CactusBeats]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

So what your saying is basically these people should accept it and move on.

No, I was only speaking for myself. I mean that if I was one of the family members, I would probably feel differently and would want to know more and see more evidence. It's not up to me to tell any family member what to do because I believe people must make their own choices and seek their own truth. Everyone must come to their own conclusions and understanding of that days events.

If I were one of the family members (keep in mind, the following is only pertaining to me in a would-be circumstance), which I am not, I can only guess at how I might be feeling. My closest guess though after this amount of time is that to truly find peace within myself over this situation, I would need to fully accept that my loved one is gone and forgive those who perpetrated the event and those who were at fault in allowing it to happen. True peace is not accessible for me through vengeance or even justice. For me its only available through acceptance and forgiveness.

Again, I am not giving advice or passing judgment on those who may do things the same or differently. We all have the freedom to choose and come to our own conclusions, no matter what the official word or facts happen to be.

My two cents.

[CactusBeats]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

I would say this is a bit more than "every theory". This was supposedly the biggest terrorist attack on US soil. I think you have to get the details 100%. If my house explodes while I'm at work, I know there will be a thorough investigation into why it happened and i imagine the investigator would not be hindered in the investigation. 9/11 should of been the most thorough investigation in American History and answered all the questions.

I think your attitude is a bit naive in always expecting the truth. Even officials whose job is to do public service act in their own interest from time to time. You do know that the "winners" write history as it would be to their liking. Since the terrorists died on 9/11 those who live on get to write the history to their own liking, not necessarily how it exactly happened. If it is somehow to the Bush Administration's advantage to describe events the way they did, then that is naturally how they will do it. Same goes for the 9/11 Commission (Congress basically). Each body assigned to do a task will do so as they see fit, not necessarily how you might like them to in a perfect world with the facts all lying in front of the investigators just to be picked up like a bunch of dropped coins.

Per your example, if the official charged with investigating your blown up house has a brother-in-law who is chief financial officer of the small insurance company your house happens to be insured with, the official may determine a cause that is not covered by your insurance policy. I say this not to promote more conspiracy, but just to demonstrate that the world is not a neutral field with referees and honest players on the field. The world is full of self-interested individuals and it shouldn't surprise us one bit when they happen to act in their own self-interest, even when they are supposed to have the public interest as central to their duties. On earth people manipulate. Maybe on a different planet this is not so, but I know when I am on earth that this is how it is. Period.

[CactusBeats]

Re: The Obama Deception (New Documentary)

Chunky, are you satisfied with the way the King's Cross (subway bombing) investigation was handled and the conclusions they came to?