Some background to Dutch trouble

[Yao]

This might give a pretty good overview of the situation in my little country.

Here

Especially the part about too much political correctness describes pretty well the sentiments around here.
Van Gogh could have been a bit more tactfull in his approach though, but he usually tried to point out those elements that were violating the constitution of our country, and our norms and values. He wasn't just hitting for the sake of it.

On the one hand, I sometimes wish people could shed off that identity they cling to so much, because after all we're all humans. On the other hand however, I also want other cultures to respect mine, putting myzelf back into one of the cultural boxes. It's really hard, but I think my first though is virtually unattainable in this world. Or at least in my lifetime and that of many generations to come.
I do respect other cultures, their habits and their beliefs, but I also expect some respect towards mine, too. It has to come from both sides.
That is what most people think, and that's what's upsetting people in the Netherlands right now: Muslims get their own school, get to do their prayers 5 times a day and even want to be allowed to go to work with the niqaab (women) on. There even was this primary school teacher who wanted to teach little children with that headwrap on.
In a secular state like this, where religion is practiced in private, people dissaprove of that. Still there is some over-liberal people around here that just want to consent with every whim of foreign groups in this society. And that is just too much. This country may be called the most tolerant and liberal of Europe, but we do have our boundaries. I think that is quite normal.

If these developments mean tolerance is backfiring on the Dutch, they're not about to accept the alternative. Van Gogh's murder was such an affront to free speech that Cohen, the Amsterdam mayor who was once the butt of his anti-Semitic jokes, asked demonstrators to gather in Dam Square and make noise. Twenty thousand people came, screaming and banging pots, pans and drums in the damp autumn night. A progressive society isn't about to go down quietly.

Word.

[Roderik_London]

Seems like there is a system which makes that honest right wing people get shot, by the left-wing political mob (including 94% of Dutch journalist who say they are left-winged)

It's a shame that a lot of left winged politicians and journalists (as are 94% of Dutch journalists) tried to put themselves in teh picture as like they always had sympathy for van Gogh after the speech. So did the major of Amsterdam, who forced to get invited for Van GGogh's funeral, while most people knew Van GOgh did not want this guy at his funeral.

NL is in decline and will continue to do so...

[Yao]

I hope not, but who'll tell.

A lot of the attacks on Muslim primary schools and mosques have been the work of young deliquents, age 16-17 just looking for some excitement (and they thought this kind of vandalism would be legitimized by the reactions that the society expressed after the murder).

And you're right about the media: total hypocrits when it comes to their attitude towards van Gogh, because even if they knew him, not all media liked him.

I personally did not have an opinion of him; he looked a bit like a sleaze, but in discussions usually made some good points. Not like he was only shouting out junk and never made a point or anything, he tried to keep his discussion on Islam interesting, spicey.

It's just a shame that the left-wingers and extremists have now deemed it neccesary to take up arms to defend their points and beliefs. Anything that could've been connected to right-wing sympathies in politics has already been beaten to death (verbally), but we let the left just get more and more brutal.
And now we're plucking the fruits of that attitude.

[cosmo]

Multi-culturalism is catching up with them.

[Yao]

It's not multi-culturalism, it's the overdone tolerance policy here...

[thesightless]

i hear people are going nuts over the mosque being built next to the soccer stadium. is it that bad? here in america, outside of certain idiots, most poeple realize that the vast majority of the muslim population are extremely peaceful and respectful.

[Yao]

It's the heat of the moment I think, in these days it's better to keep your mouth shut about plans regarding the construction of a Mosque anywhere

But on the other hand, don't believe the media: Netherlands is not as tolerant as it may seem. It has been the politics, but the common man on the street is a bit different. It took 2 murders to make it come out.

I have Muslim friends too, here and in Africa, and I've learned that indeed the vast majority is peaceful and respectful, they're not the ones I worry about. But it really scares me when an extremist kills one of my fellow countrymen for disagreeing with him.

The ones that have been attacking mosques and islamic school are mostly young people with little education or low-grade education, sad but true.
When asked for their reasons they won't have any, and start yelling 'they should get the fuck out of our country' and pointless stuff like that. They're known as Lonsdale-youths, because they always wear Lonsdale clothes, supposedly for the connection with the NSDAP from Hitler. Weak excuse, but still worn nonetheless. LoNSDAle.

I know of one racist skinhead on my university, but he'd better keep his mouth shut. Or I will do it for him, permanently. Gotta defend my African brethren, rite?