Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Fallujah

[robprunzit]

Check it out. Looks like WMD's to me.

If you use this link

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/phantom_fury/flash.htm

to visit the USA Today website you will be treated to a flash presentation of several pictures taken during the siege of Fallujah. Picture number two in this presentation shows 40 vials in boxes labeled "Sarin." That's sarin gas, my friends. One drop of this stuff on your skin can kill you. The boxes have Cyrillic and German characters on them, indicating they may have come from our good friends the Russians or the Germans. The caption under the photo reads "Marines discovered 40 vials of suspected Sarin gas while searching a house in Fallujah, Iraq. It was secreted in a briefcase hidden in a truck in the courtyard of the house."

From the site:

http://boortz.com

[mixu]

Does it count as a WMD without a warhead?

[Garrick]

those pictures are very cool. very graphic and super high quality. makes you really get at least a general idea of whats going no over there. thanks for sharing the link.

i'm not sure sarin gas is WMD by itself. saddam was already using these. i think the WMD is more the vehicle used to deliver the gas/explosive/whatever.

[thesightless]

Does it count as a WMD without a warhead?

only if you are an american democrat or french. :?

[davetlv]

As i understand it there are two main components to WMD's - the agent (chemical or nuclear) and the weapon.

We know, from experience, that Iraq had weapons that he could fire into neighbouring states, to adapt a scud for example to carry sarin i dont believe is that difficult.

However sarin can be released into the environment in many ways, just think back to the Tokyo subway incident in 1995 (or thereabouts). In the this case the weapon itself was a human carrier.

So with that in mind i guess WMD's have been found, although i would be intrested in knowing how much damage 40 viales can actually do? Anyone know?

[thesightless]

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Fallujah

one vial of sarin gas can do a lot of damage. i.e. stand on a balcony in a crowded subway, crack the top off and spray the liquid around onto people, many deaths. the army had us view videotapes on how to treat it. guess how you treat someone in a combat situation? you do them a favor and kill them. i never wanna think about that shit again.

[robprunzit]

I liked the photos too Garrick. The photographer was using an exceptional lense. I just don't understand how the photographers don't get shot by someone by accident.

WMD's. Hey Mixu, I have always understood WMD's to be the component which would kill or damage a large mass of people with little difficulty. Also, see my point 1 below.

The UN always had knowledge of Saddams weapons, because he gave details of them after the Persian Gulf War. The problem was after 9/11 Saddam would not account for what he did with the stuff. He just said he didn't have it anymore, without showing a proof trail as to how he got rid of them. That was the problem which propelled Bush to go in and take Saddam out. Bush felt the need to get the WMD's out of Iraq before Bin Laden got them into his own hands.

The media and those against the actions of the US and allies, allowed Saddam to use the media to propel this misconception that he didnt have WMD's. But everyone who knows their history on Saddam remembers his surrender and his part of the agreement at that time was to list what WMD's he had and destroy them. At that time, he listed it then shortly after used them on his own people, killing some 300,000 people, maybe Kurds. Those were people who were rising up on their own to fight against Saddam and the Republican Guard. They didnt know the US would pull out once the Iraqis were out to Kuwait. They got screwed, and that in turn made it very hard for the Iraqis to believe the US really would stay till the end. Earlier in this war, they were still afraid of the US leaving and them being killed.

OK. Two points to mention.

1. Shells were found some time ago with Sarin and another chemical in them. If I remember correctly, maybe 8-15 shells all together. Not alot, but enough to kill 500,000 people if dispersed the right way. There was little attention giving to it by the left winged media, though the news on this was (and probably still is) available.

2. There is a chance USA Today, made a claim to quickly. I heard it said today, that it is possible that the vials where not actually Sarin, but test kits to check substances for the poison.

I don't know for sure.

Interesting side note though. If these vials where not the chemical, but test vials, doesnt that make us come to wonder how many other times the media makes a quick claim without the facts. Kind of a 'Dan Rather' mistake again, and probably many other times too.

Dont always just believe what you read (anywhere), or what you hear, or even what you see. There maybe another side to the story. The first story many times isn't portrayed accurately, or for the proper reason.

[Trillian]

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Fallujah

Perhaps they were planted there ?

[Marimba]

maybe somo trick with the photoshop..

[sacredawe78]

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Fallujah

i do not call the thousands upon thousands dead and displaced from this war a reasonable result for having expunged what looks like a few cases of sarin

it STILL seems to me insufficient evidence to support a utilitarian argument for this war

not only that, consider that sarin is a synthesized material. the values that induced and propogated its existence have not been discussed, reasoned, or changed, therefore, it seems only likely that man may again still create more sarin and more and more and more....think of all the wars that would need to be fought to keep the sarin proliferation in check...and think of all the dead and suffering that would be casualties of such activity

it seems our ignorance and arrogance are inhibiting a genuine rectification of such a problem....the only way to keep sarin from being produced is to change the values that created it, not by temporarily removing it from the hands of another by force...it is obviously illogical, inefficient, and at the same time causing death and destruction far outweighing its proposed benefits

another argument would show that this war is based on even more fallacious reasoning

if iraq has WMD, why didnt GW order the attack of other countries which he certainly had evidence of nuclear weaponry for?? such as north korea

seems fallacious to me...also, what about iran?? what about russia??

[toasty]

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Fallujah

Assuming this to be sarin, what exactly does this mean? Sarin has a shelf life between several weeks and several months. Either this was pre-Saddam sarin, and it has lost its effectiveness (not that that would excuse Iraq having it, of course), or it has been brought in since his capture and may or may not still be good.

I think it is interesting that it doesn't have any arabic lettering on it, like you might expect if it were Iraqi-made.

Just curious if anyone had heard anyone credibly speak to the source...

[gokada]

Re: Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Fallujah

Perhaps they were planted there ?

Or perhaps NOT...we don't need anymore conspiracy theorists...now that potential evidence is found that may make the case for going to war, people want to pull that conspiracy bunny out of the hat...it's old and ineffective... what has to be found in order for you to believe that WMD's were there? Is there anything that will convince you? Or does a bomb filled with mustard gas or sarin need to drop on U.S. troops before you'll believe it?

[skahound]

only if you are an american democrat or french. :?

Well I'm glad we've resorted to broad generalizations and over simplification.

[Yao]

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp

Some facts.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7050/

And some more facts.

http://www.cfrterrorism.org/weapons/sarin.html

And another one.

[brakada]

Still, a SUITCASE of vials SUSPECTED to be sarin gas does not prove anything. Come on people, it hasn't even been confirmed that this was sarin and it certainly doesn't look like it is safe to carry such a deadly substance in glass vials in a suitcase...