Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

[Garrick]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

at the slightest hint of socialism, its a stereotypical reaction because our country wasn't founded on socialism... it was based on liberty and freedom of choice. and our country is digressing from what our country was founded on, whether at a snail's pace or a rabbit's pace.

[Miroslav]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

at the slightest hint of socialism, its a stereotypical reaction because our country wasn't founded on socialism... it was based on liberty and freedom of choice. and our country is digressing from what our country was founded on, whether at a snail's pace or a rabbit's pace.

Perhaps you still have a job, can afford your health care, and have some semblance of a retirement lined up.

But tens of millions of Americans who "played by the rules" just got fucked and now they're watching decades of their hard work disappear overnight.

Suddenly, the whole "liberty and freedom of choice" paradigm doesn't sound so hot when your only health care is an emergency room and you discover that you'll be working every day in a Wal Mart until you die, thanks to the "freedom of choice" exercised by a bunch of wealthy bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers.

And the stuff you call "socialism" - trying to reform health care, trying to increase Wall Street regulation, trying to develop some stimulus plans - sure looks a lot better to a lot of people right now.

[speciale]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

Perhaps you still have a job, can afford your health care, and have some semblance of a retirement lined up.

But tens of millions of Americans who "played by the rules" just got fucked and now they're watching decades of their hard work disappear overnight.

Suddenly, the whole "liberty and freedom of choice" paradigm doesn't sound so hot when your only health care is an emergency room and you discover that you'll be working every day in a Wal Mart until you die, thanks to the "freedom of choice" exercised by a bunch of wealthy bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers.

hold on, you say freedom of choice of bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers. what about putting some of the responsibilities on the government. seems when they get involved, things fuck up. they are to blame just as much as the others as well as those who take out loans they know they cant afford. also, i dont mind helping those who do things right and get the bad end of the stick, but i dont want any of my money going to those who take advantage of the system and depend on government to always save them. I do not work my ass off to take care of them. I do want freedom of choice for me and my family. I do not need some politician telling me what is right and wrong for my family.

Maybe i would feel better about our future if we didnt have idiots like barney frank, reid, pelosi and obama running the show. They dont have any clue nor do most politicians of how it is being a regular American. And when i say politicians, i mean democrats and republicans. All of them. most of them dont know how to do the right thing like paying their own taxes. they bare as much responsibity as the others do for our economic downfall. they need to stop pointing the finger at everyone one else and step up to accept blame. Maybe if there were term limits for Congress, they would work for the people and not re-election.

[Miroslav]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

hold on, you say freedom of choice of bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers. what about putting some of the responsibilities on the government. seems when they get involved, things fuck up. they are to blame just as much as the others as well as those who take out loans they know they cant afford. also, i dont mind helping those who do things right and get the bad end of the stick, but i dont want any of my money going to those who take advantage of the system and depend on government to always save them. I do not work my ass off to take care of them. I do want freedom of choice for me and my family. I do not need some politician telling me what is right and wrong for my family.

Maybe i would feel better about our future if we didnt have idiots like barney frank, reid, pelosi and obama running the show. They dont have any clue nor do most politicians of how it is being a regular American. And when i say politicians, i mean democrats and republicans. All of them. most of them dont know how to do the right thing like paying their own taxes. they bare as much responsibity as the others do for our economic downfall. they need to stop pointing the finger at everyone one else and step up to accept blame. Maybe if there were term limits for Congress, they would work for the people and not re-election.

Ok. Then I guess we can just have bare-knuckled capitalism with no rules or safeguards and see how that works out. Maybe Rush Limbaugh would do a better job.

Also, just so you know...the tens of millions of Americans who just lost their jobs and retirement savings probably were probably (for the most part) hard-working people and weren't depending on the government to "always save them".

[speciale]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

Ok. Then I guess we can just have bare-knuckled capitalism and see how that goes. Maybe Rush Limbaugh would do a better job.

bare knuckled capitalism? you really want big government. it is sad you have confidence that our government is capable of taking care of you. I choose in taking care of myself. I do believe in some form of regulation especially on the economy, but not in the form the current adminitstration is asking for. dont take away what people work for.

as for Rush, it is freedom of speech. if someone doesn't like him, dont listen to him. I dont like how some news channels report their news so I choose not to watch them. Better than watching them and then bitching about it everyday. he is a talk show host, not a leader. he is in it for 38 million dollars a year. if he really was a believer in what he says, he would do it for free.

[floridaorange]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

he is a talk show host, not a leader. he is in it for 38 million dollars a year. if he really was a believer in what he says, he would do it for free.

thank you, precisely! (more so regarding other threads about limb)

[speciale]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

Also, just so you know...the tens of millions of Americans who just lost their jobs and retirement savings probably were probably (for the most part) hard-working people and weren't depending on the government to "always save them".

as for these people who I have a some friends who fall in this category, government is part of the reason they are in their situation. So why depend on them to come to the rescue?

I went through this during the years the IT industry crashed and was out of work for 6 months. My debt went through the roof. 20k in credits cards trying to survive. I survived. It took me time, but I finally paid off the debt and did not get 1 penny from the government. I was denied unemployment because of a form that was filled out improperly by an employer. I did not sit around waiting for someone to take care of me. I know first hand what it is like to be out of work and down in the shitter.

[Shpira]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

Perhaps you still have a job, can afford your health care, and have some semblance of a retirement lined up.

But tens of millions of Americans who "played by the rules" just got fucked and now they're watching decades of their hard work disappear overnight.

Suddenly, the whole "liberty and freedom of choice" paradigm doesn't sound so hot when your only health care is an emergency room and you discover that you'll be working every day in a Wal Mart until you die, thanks to the "freedom of choice" exercised by a bunch of wealthy bankers, brokers, and real estate dealers.

And the stuff you call "socialism" - trying to reform health care, trying to increase Wall Street regulation, trying to develop some stimulus plans - sure looks a lot better to a lot of people right now.

Well said.

[Miroslav]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

bare knuckled capitalism? you really want big government. it is sad you have confidence that our government is capable of taking care of you. I choose in taking care of myself. I do believe in some form of regulation especially on the economy, but not in the form the current adminitstration is asking for. dont take away what people work for.

Yeah, thanks for setting me straight. I want the FREEDOM to be exploited by everyone and everything! If I can't find a job soon and my savings run out, then I'm cool with eating tree bark for a while and living in a trash bin - it must be because I'm lazy and don't know the value of hard work, just like all those other millions of Americans who just lost everything. And I want health care costs to keep rising in the "market" at over 2x inflation and to be over 20% of GDP by 2017. And I can just rely on "the market" to provide for my retirement - gee, that worked out swell!

And how can you be for regulation of the economy? That's the government telling you what you can and can't do. What are you, some sort of a Socialist type? Man up and knuckle down for some "everyone for himself" free market action! We don't need "rules" because we don't need to be taken care of. This is AMERICA.

[speciale]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

Yeah, thanks for setting me straight. I want the FREEDOM to be exploited by everyone and everything! If I can't find a job soon and my savings run out, then I'm cool with eating tree bark for a while and living in a trash bin - it must be because I'm lazy, just like all those other millions of Americans who just lost everything. And I want health care costs to keep rising in the "market" at over 2x inflation and to be over 20% of GDP by 2017. And I can just rely on "the market" to provide for my retirement - gee, that worked out swell!

And how can you be for regulation of the economy? That's the government telling you what you can and can't do. What are you, some sort of a Socialist type? Man up and knuckle down for some "everyone for himself" free market action! We don't need "rules" because we don't need to be taken care of. This is AMERICA.

you sound disgruntled. I never called you lazy either. if you lost your job and you were one who did things right, I already said, I have no problem in supporting you. You are one who helps this country run. And if you did lose your job, I have been there, I know what it is like. I would do anything I possibly could to help you get back on your feet. I am being honest here. It is shitty to be down without work.

And seriously, tree bark? Is that even nutritional? sorry, i lol'ed when I read that.

As for regulation, Do you want another fanny and freddie fiasco? If a company chooses to invest poorly, dont bail them out. let them fail. Better yet, dont allow that to happen again.

Healthcare needs to be reformed, but not universal health care. What is interesting is what the doctors have to pay. its ridiculous. Also, where has universal health care been successful? there are other alternatives.

Next the government will tell us we can no longer listen to Digweed. From now on, we can only listen to Tiesto.

[speciale]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

then I'm cool with eating tree bark for a while .

cool, http://www.survivaltopics.com/surviv...ble-pine-bark/

[CactusBeats]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

From what I can tell, a lot of the conservatives that are at these tea-parties are folks that held their noses through eight years of Bush and are damned sick of elected officials spending like crazy. Because Bush is no longer president, they have now been given the green light to go protest the bullshit of the past eight years. It wasn't patriotic to protest when Bush was president, i.e. "you are either with us or you are against us." These folks are mostly like lemmings. Fox & Limbaugh tell them to jump and they ask "how high?, at what time?, for how long?, oh, are any stem cells involved? and will Sarah Palin be there? please please I hope so!!"

[speciale]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

From what I can tell, a lot of the conservatives that are at these tea-parties are folks that held their noses through eight years of Bush and are damned sick of elected officials spending like crazy. Because Bush is no longer president, they have now been given the green light to go protest the bullshit of the past eight years. It wasn't patriotic to protest when Bush was president, i.e. "you are either with us or you are against us." These folks are mostly like lemmings. Fox & Limbaugh tell them to jump and they ask "how high?, at what time?, for how long?, oh, are any stem cells involved? and will Sarah Palin be there? please please I hope so!!"

Anyone who follows what people on tv tell them to do are lost IMO. It is all entertainment. But it goes both ways. there are many people who watch msnbc and cnn and are not given any true facts just the liberal views of those channels. Cable news is not news and purely entertainment. reporters should report not give us their views and beliefs.

The fact still remains, I have never seen our country so divided. I guess that is all you can expect from a 2 party system.

[Miroslav]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

you sound disgruntled. I never called you lazy either. if you lost your job and you were one who did things right, I already said, I have no problem in supporting you.

Thanks, I don't need support just yet. I'll live. And hopefully some day there will be real jobs again to be had.

My general point was that there is a continuum between all-out socialism and all-out capitalism. While all-out socialism is arguably a bad idea, so is all-out capitalism. All-out capitalism is an ugly world, and we've already foresaken it a long time ago. We have the FDIC, anti-monopoly regulations, bank capitalization requirements, child labor laws...those are generally good things to have, and they are all in a way "socialist". It would be nice to have a rational discussion about where we as a society should be on that continuum somewhere in between the two extremes. Instead, we always get scared away from doing anything because of "socialism". It's like the proverbial boogey man hiding in the closet.

So taking health care as an example: I guess that's why we spend more per capita on health care than any other nation on earth and yet rank in the high 20s / low 30s among industrialized nations in terms of life expectancy (many of which have those evil "socialist" elements of health care). The graph below is from the early 2000s, but the trend has not changes (and the spending trend is growing like hell).

Not sure what "alternatives" you're talking about there, but I have seen nothing from the right-wingers, except to torpedo any discussion of addressing this as (of course) "socialist." Bush and the right-wingers had the better part of eight years to address things like this and didn't do shit. And while "the markets" are generally good, they haven't helped in this case.

And I suspect this trend will just continue to grow indefinitely because the right-wing spectre of "socialism" is powerful in this country and will always scare people back into complacency with the way things are.

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

[Shpira]

Re: Left Wing Liberal Extremists Could Cause Civil War

^^Man what happened to you? I agree with like everything you say these days lol