obama approval rating...

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

Actually not in Churchills mind. If only Truman would have listened to him, Soviets would have had to work for half of Germany. Truman was able to drop those bombs but not have enough balls to push the Soviets back? Stalin didnt seem to scared to test Truman after the bombs.

Too bad Oil can start wars. Cutting off oil to Japan was a mistake. History always repeats itself.

No matter what the English say Churchill was an idiot. Its not about balls its about reality. The US fighting conditions and those the USSR experienced do not compare. Read up on Stalingrad. Also the US is a democracy the USSR wasn't...meaning that the soviet soldiers were shot if they retreated but it also means that they were allowed and actively encouraged to rape German women. The USSR army was pretty psychotic during ww2...they truly made it hell for all the German troops that were on the eastern front. It was considered the biggest punishment to be sent to fight against the Russians as it meant almost certain death...the sheer number of USSR conventional forces was overwhelming even compared to that of USA....and USSR weapons such as the t-34 tank were so much more superior to anything the US or Germany produced at the time. Although many argue that the Tiger was the best tank the sheer complexity of the engine meant that it was often left behind on the battlefield as they couldn't fix it although it did have the best Armour and the largest caliber of the canon.

we should have a history section...

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

It's just a matter of protocol and a sign of respect in their culture; it doesn't actually mean that you are somehow subservient. For heaven's sake, lay off the macho sauce.

Was the reach around comment taking to too far?

[Miroslav]

Re: obama approval rating...

IMO, I bow to no man. I can shake hands, curtsy, hug, hi 5, slap on the ass, cop a feel, a reach around or anything, but to me bowing to someone is different. But that is me. sorry for having an opinion.

It's just a matter of protocol and a sign of respect in their culture; it doesn't actually mean that you are somehow subservient. For heaven's sake, lay off the macho sauce.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

The fact of the matter is that the Cold War began way before WW2 ended... .

I wish people would accept that. Many historians say it was the end of the war, but they are way off.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

no oil... no planes, no boats no nothing...the end of WW2 with Germany would have allowed for huge amounts of resources to be transferred to the East. The fact of the matter is that the Cold War began way before WW2 ended... Hiroshima and Nagasaki served as a reminder to the Soviet Army that it needs to stop at Berlin as the Conventional forces of the USSR would have most likely just kept steaming forward.

Actually not in Churchills mind. If only Truman would have listened to him, Soviets would have had to work for half of Germany. Truman was able to drop those bombs but not have enough balls to push the Soviets back? Stalin didnt seem to scared to test Truman after the bombs.

Too bad Oil can start wars. Cutting off oil to Japan was a mistake. History always repeats itself.

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

no oil... no planes, no boats no nothing...the end of WW2 with Germany would have allowed for huge amounts of resources to be transferred to the East. The fact of the matter is that the Cold War began way before WW2 ended... Hiroshima and Nagasaki served as a reminder to the Soviet Army that it needs to stop at Berlin as the Conventional forces of the USSR would have most likely just kept steaming forward.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

look under my name, its jeff

and japan didn't surrender after the first bomb...so they dropped another. its pretty straightforward. the entire society had been indoctrinated into the kamakaze way of thinking...better to die than surrender.


taken from another message board, and written by a guy who has read over a hundred books on the subject:

Had america fought a conventional war against japan:

The estimates were that over one million American casualties would be incurred in an invasion, killed and wounded.

Estimates of Japanese casualties, military and civilian, was somewhere between 3 and 10 million, depending on the duration of the defense.

Totals of the immediate dead and eventual dead from both atomic bombs was under 500,000, so if the decision is weighed in the number of dead, the bombs saved many more lives than they took.

Not the entire country of Japan agreed to the followings of their government. I doubt it. The Kamikaze way. If that were the case, the entire country would have enlisted for the war.

Your right and I wont argue, Japan should have surrendered after the first bomb. But I think Truman or someone in our government could have suggested, lets drop our second bomb away from the city to remind them of the destruction. At least give it a try because I do know it would have been bad if we invaded Japan. An invasion would have had more people fighting to the death. Imagine someone invading your country. I would fight to the death protecting my rights.

[day_for_night]

Re: obama approval rating...

Hmm that is certainly one way to ending it...a naval blockade would be another.

not really feasible...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL9ZC8SJxQI[/youtube]

but we've veered off topic. this is for another thread...

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

look under my name, its jeff

and japan didn't surrender after the first bomb...so they dropped another. its pretty straightforward. the entire society had been indoctrinated into the kamakaze way of thinking...better to die than surrender.


taken from another message board, and written by a guy who has read over a hundred books on the subject:

Had america fought a conventional war against japan:

The estimates were that over one million American casualties would be incurred in an invasion, killed and wounded.

Estimates of Japanese casualties, military and civilian, was somewhere between 3 and 10 million, depending on the duration of the defense.

Totals of the immediate dead and eventual dead from both atomic bombs was under 500,000, so if the decision is weighed in the number of dead, the bombs saved many more lives than they took.

Hmm that is certainly one way to ending it...a naval blockade would be another.

p.s. sorry about the name thing Jeff its been a long day

[day_for_night]

Re: obama approval rating...

I so agree with you here. It is one thing killing in the line of battle, but to attack an entire city with a nuclear attack is another. Dropping the 2nd bomb was not needed. My father-in-law was stationed there a few years after and it was horrifying to hear the stories of the families lost and the people who now with deformaties from radiation were on the streets begging. Life is a fragile thing.

i don't think you guys are remembering how war was fought back then. there was no such thing as 'smart bombs'. when they bombed germany and japan, they did it out of B2's, and it was carpet bombing...they killed military and non military people indiscriminantly.

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

Lol...I don't have a huge agenda against the US. You should critically examine the world you live in order to understand all the flaws that are rampant in our society. The US is just the country most of you guys seem to know about and discuss in the politics section. Since I study politics its natural that I can argue my opinion. As far as I a concerned we can analyse any nation and criticise its actions.

One thing though for a nation that goes around poking its head into other peoples business the US has a pretty far from perfect back record thats why its fun to analyse it. In addition it seems to me that a lot of Americans don't know shit about the country they live in or about its history yet they maintain that its the "best" country in the world whatever that means.

Furthermore as currently themost powerful nation in the world it bears the largest amount of responsability for the current state of the world.

if you start a thread about any country and its politics or foreign policy I would be more than willing to contribute.

p.s. the world (including the US and all other nations) is not perfect in fact its pretty far from it. The first step to finding a solution is identifying problems.

[day_for_night]

Re: obama approval rating...

wow...nice to see a discussion going...

I honestly think that day for night (sorry don't know your name mate) is right about most things apart from the whole Hiroshima - Nagasaki thing and most world historians would agree. At least it can certainly be said that there was no need for two bombs to be dropped.

look under my name, its jeff

and japan didn't surrender after the first bomb...so they dropped another. its pretty straightforward. the entire society had been indoctrinated into the kamakaze way of thinking...better to die than surrender.


taken from another message board, and written by a guy who has read over a hundred books on the subject:

Had america fought a conventional war against japan:

The estimates were that over one million American casualties would be incurred in an invasion, killed and wounded.

Estimates of Japanese casualties, military and civilian, was somewhere between 3 and 10 million, depending on the duration of the defense.

Totals of the immediate dead and eventual dead from both atomic bombs was under 500,000, so if the decision is weighed in the number of dead, the bombs saved many more lives than they took.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

you're comparing apples and soccer balls. the people who died in japan were casualties of war, and dropping those bombs did save lives. entire japanese villages were committing suicide rather than be captured by the americans. everyone agrees it was horrific, but in the end saved both american and japanese lives.
the few japanese who were captured were not tortured.

despite what they do, all people deserve fair trials. you do not get to preach democracy and justice, but then not live by those rules yourself.
.

I disagree with you here. These were everyday folks living their lives. They had no clue of what hit them. So wouldnt it be better to watrerboard a few people trying to save lives versus taking out an entire city to save lives? Plus some of thepeople being tortured planned the attack that killed 3000 Americans. They deserve to die, not be tortured.

As for the suicides avoiding American capture, I never heard of civlilians doing it. I heard more of soldiers in battle. If you got some reading on this, PM me a link. I am fascinated with WWII.

wow...nice to see a discussion going...

I honestly think that day for night (sorry don't know your name mate) is right about most things apart from the whole Hiroshima - Nagasaki thing and most world historians would agree. At least it can certainly be said that there was no need for two bombs to be dropped.

I so agree with you here. It is one thing killing in the line of battle, but to attack an entire city with a nuclear attack is another. Dropping the 2nd bomb was not needed. My father-in-law was stationed there a few years after and it was horrifying to hear the stories of the families lost and the people who now with deformaties from radiation were on the streets begging. Life is a fragile thing.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

As for everything else Speciale...you really need to pick up a European news paper...freedom fries lol America does need to apologize and believe me it has only begun. As for bowing to the king...yes its called diplomatic protocol and furthermore its very important for the US to keep good relations with the Saudi's especially since they are starting to turn towards China. You need to understand that the US is NOT self sufficient and as much as you would like to believe the opposite the time of US unilateralism has past. The US simply does not have the money anymore to make a new enemy every other day.

Honestly the best you can hope for is that the US maintains its Super power status. I think that new political works will no longer refer to the present world system as a uni-polar one...but that's something only time will tell.

p.s. to make it clear I don't believe Obama is god's gift to the world but he at least better than Bush in some regards. That is undeniable.

IMO, I bow to no man. I can shake hands, curtsy, hug, hi 5, slap on the ass, cop a feel, a reach around or anything, but to me bowing to someone is different. But that is me. sorry for having an opinion. A bunch of people made a big deal about michelle obama putting her arm around the queen, but you dont see me bitching about that. we are all humans.

Freedom Fries? WTF? I am pretty stoned and some fires would be good right about now.

From what a get from your posts is you have some huge agenda against the United States. Why? Why do you want us to fail so bad?

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

wow...nice to see a discussion going...

I honestly think that day for night (sorry don't know your name mate) is right about most things apart from the whole Hiroshima - Nagasaki thing and most world historians would agree. At least it can certainly be said that there was no need for two bombs to be dropped.

As for everything else Speciale...you really need to pick up a European news paper...freedom fries lol America does need to apologize and believe me it has only begun. As for bowing to the king...yes its called diplomatic protocol and furthermore its very important for the US to keep good relations with the Saudi's especially since they are starting to turn towards China. You need to understand that the US is NOT self sufficient and as much as you would like to believe the opposite the time of US unilateralism has past. The US simply does not have the money anymore to make a new enemy every other day.

Honestly the best you can hope for is that the US maintains its Super power status. I think that new political works will no longer refer to the present world system as a uni-polar one...but that's something only time will tell.

p.s. to make it clear I don't believe Obama is god's gift to the world but he at least better than Bush in some regards. That is undeniable.