obama approval rating...

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

no oil... no planes, no boats no nothing...the end of WW2 with Germany would have allowed for huge amounts of resources to be transferred to the East. The fact of the matter is that the Cold War began way before WW2 ended... Hiroshima and Nagasaki served as a reminder to the Soviet Army that it needs to stop at Berlin as the Conventional forces of the USSR would have most likely just kept steaming forward.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

no oil... no planes, no boats no nothing...the end of WW2 with Germany would have allowed for huge amounts of resources to be transferred to the East. The fact of the matter is that the Cold War began way before WW2 ended... Hiroshima and Nagasaki served as a reminder to the Soviet Army that it needs to stop at Berlin as the Conventional forces of the USSR would have most likely just kept steaming forward.

Actually not in Churchills mind. If only Truman would have listened to him, Soviets would have had to work for half of Germany. Truman was able to drop those bombs but not have enough balls to push the Soviets back? Stalin didnt seem to scared to test Truman after the bombs.

Too bad Oil can start wars. Cutting off oil to Japan was a mistake. History always repeats itself.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

The fact of the matter is that the Cold War began way before WW2 ended... .

I wish people would accept that. Many historians say it was the end of the war, but they are way off.

[Miroslav]

Re: obama approval rating...

IMO, I bow to no man. I can shake hands, curtsy, hug, hi 5, slap on the ass, cop a feel, a reach around or anything, but to me bowing to someone is different. But that is me. sorry for having an opinion.

It's just a matter of protocol and a sign of respect in their culture; it doesn't actually mean that you are somehow subservient. For heaven's sake, lay off the macho sauce.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

It's just a matter of protocol and a sign of respect in their culture; it doesn't actually mean that you are somehow subservient. For heaven's sake, lay off the macho sauce.

Was the reach around comment taking to too far?

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

Actually not in Churchills mind. If only Truman would have listened to him, Soviets would have had to work for half of Germany. Truman was able to drop those bombs but not have enough balls to push the Soviets back? Stalin didnt seem to scared to test Truman after the bombs.

Too bad Oil can start wars. Cutting off oil to Japan was a mistake. History always repeats itself.

No matter what the English say Churchill was an idiot. Its not about balls its about reality. The US fighting conditions and those the USSR experienced do not compare. Read up on Stalingrad. Also the US is a democracy the USSR wasn't...meaning that the soviet soldiers were shot if they retreated but it also means that they were allowed and actively encouraged to rape German women. The USSR army was pretty psychotic during ww2...they truly made it hell for all the German troops that were on the eastern front. It was considered the biggest punishment to be sent to fight against the Russians as it meant almost certain death...the sheer number of USSR conventional forces was overwhelming even compared to that of USA....and USSR weapons such as the t-34 tank were so much more superior to anything the US or Germany produced at the time. Although many argue that the Tiger was the best tank the sheer complexity of the engine meant that it was often left behind on the battlefield as they couldn't fix it although it did have the best Armour and the largest caliber of the canon.

we should have a history section...

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

No matter what the English say Churchill was an idiot. Its not about balls its about reality. The US fighting conditions and those the USSR experienced do not compare. Read up on Stalingrad. Also the US is a democracy the USSR wasn't...meaning that the soviet soldiers were shot if they retreated but it also means that they were allowed and actively encouraged to rape German women. The USSR army was pretty psychotic during ww2...they truly made it hell for all the German troops that were on the eastern front. It was considered the biggest punishment to be sent to fight against the Russians as it meant almost certain death...the sheer number of USSR conventional forces was overwhelming even compared to that of USA....and USSR weapons such as the t-34 tank were so much more superior to anything the US or Germany produced at the time. Although many argue that the Tiger was the best tank the sheer complexity of the engine meant that it was often left behind on the battlefield as they couldn't fix it although it did have the best Armour and the largest caliber of the canon.

we should have a history section...

lol we should. Actually Poland had the best tanks in the world at that time. only if they didnt depend on France and England by taking their word, blitzkrieg might not have been so quick and swift. You can only play defense so long until the other team will score on you. Poland should have fought without waiting for broken promises.Very sad to what the people in Warsaw had to go through.

You think what the USSR did to germans was bad, my grandfather and grandmother were in the Polish army and sent to a POW camp. At that time, the germans sent them to the soviets. There, they were treated bad, really bad. In fact, they executed a pol each day. It was my grandfathers time, he stood there waiting for the bullet in the back of the head, but after 30 minutes, nothing happened. He just heard soviets arguing. Then they told him to get in a train. who was he to argue. By luck, that was because germany attack mother russia. So instead of killing the polish prisoners, they threw them on the front line. How fuckn cruel. Needless to say both my grandparents escaped with general anders to the middle east. The stories are horrific. Very difficult for him to talk about it. They were so starved and near death, but after they recovered, both of them went back and helped the allies to win back Italy. Battle of Monte Casino is their symphony. In a scary way, if hitler didnt , my grandparents would have never met and I wouldnt be here today.

My grandfather turned 91 and almost lost a battle to skin cancer this year. Needless to say, he is coming up to visit from Ft Lauderdale in June and will see his great grand daughter.

A history section would be great, but I only think a handful of us would be posting in there.

[Shpira]

Re: obama approval rating...

hehe...mate they may have been good but Poland had less than 200 tanks at the outbreak of the war. So blitzkrieg would blitz through either way...

[MJDub]

Re: obama approval rating...

i don't think you guys are remembering how war was fought back then. there was no such thing as 'smart bombs'. when they bombed germany and japan, they did it out of B2's, and it was carpet bombing...they killed military and non military people indiscriminantly.

Actually they we're dropped out of B-29's. B-2's are these beastly things:



Just sayin'.

[chloe harris]

Re: obama approval rating...

would you bow in japan since its custom speciale?

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

would you bow in japan since its custom speciale?

in that case it is different since they bow back which represents a handshake type gesture. But the Saudi King didnt bow back. Ok, so there are times I will bow to someone +1

[toasty]

Re: obama approval rating...

Plus some of thepeople being tortured planned the attack that killed 3000 Americans. They deserve to die, not be tortured.

Agreed. So why not try them in a military tribunal, convict them, and put them to death? Permitting the pre-conviction waterboarding allows the torturer to play the role of judge, jury, and (practically) executioner before there's even been a finding of guilt.

Do you realize we waterboarded Kahlid Sheik Mohammed 183 times, in part to try to get information from him confirming the non-existent link between Al Qaeda and Iraq? He might be a bad example, because as a confessed matermind of the 9/11 attacks, there's a part of me that is completely OK with letting pretty much anything happen to him, but pretend that he wasn't for a moment. We had this pre-conceived idea that Iraq and Al Qaeda were connected, and waterboarded someone 183 times to try to prove it. That is obscene. Who else did we do this to that wasn't involved in 9/11?

Torture apologists often talk about the great intel we got from KSM as a result of the waterboarding. Well, when exactly did we get that? Did we get it the first time he was waterboarded? If so, why do it the other 182 times? Or did he withstand 182 waterboarding sessions only to finally relent on number 183? Sorry, no sale there.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

Agreed. So why not try them in a military tribunal, convict them, and put them to death? Permitting the pre-conviction waterboarding allows the torturer to play the role of judge, jury, and (practically) executioner before there's even been a finding of guilt.

Do you realize we waterboarded Kahlid Sheik Mohammed 183 times, in part to try to get information from him confirming the non-existent link between Al Qaeda and Iraq? He might be a bad example, because as a confessed matermind of the 9/11 attacks, there's a part of me that is completely OK with letting pretty much anything happen to him, but pretend that he wasn't for a moment. We had this pre-conceived idea that Iraq and Al Qaeda were connected, and waterboarded someone 183 times to try to prove it. That is obscene. Who else did we do this to that wasn't involved in 9/11?

Torture apologists often talk about the great intel we got from KSM as a result of the waterboarding. Well, when exactly did we get that? Did we get it the first time he was waterboarded? If so, why do it the other 182 times? Or did he withstand 182 waterboarding sessions only to finally relent on number 183? Sorry, no sale there.

This thread is so off topic looking at the title.

If someone was threating or kidnapped your family, and you had someone you knew had information on it, what would you do? would you try them in court and then put them to death? Or would you try to force information out of them? I would try to force the information out. But that is what I would do.

The bush administration had way to many leaks because I do not believe for a second that this is the first time we tortured someone for intel. I am sure we have done it for many years. Our government just did a better job of conceealing it back then.

[toasty]

Re: obama approval rating...

If someone was threating or kidnapped your family, and you had someone you knew had information on it, what would you do?

The part in bold is the key. Of course I'd want to do something to try to extract that information, but who gets to make the determination that this person does, in fact, have the information we're seeking? We waterboarded KSM 183 times to try to get him to confess to an Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Not surprisingly, he didn't break, because there wasn't any intel on a link to provide -- or maybe he did provide some "intel" to get the wateboarding to stop, and we went plunging headfirst into the worst foreign policy plunder in our nation's history on bad intel. I don't feel a lot of sorrow for the guy, but the point is that someone "knew" that he had info on it and tortured him to get it -- we might think that he deserved it for other reasons, but right here, we have a high profile situation of a guy being tortured to provide information he did not have.

[speciale]

Re: obama approval rating...

The part in bold is the key. Of course I'd want to do something to try to extract that information, but who gets to make the determination that this person does, in fact, have the information we're seeking? We waterboarded KSM 183 times to try to get him to confess to an Al Qaeda-Iraq link. Not surprisingly, he didn't break, because there wasn't any intel on a link to provide -- or maybe he did provide some "intel" to get the wateboarding to stop, and we went plunging headfirst into the worst foreign policy plunder in our nation's history on bad intel. I don't feel a lot of sorrow for the guy, but the point is that someone "knew" that he had info on it and tortured him to get it -- we might think that he deserved it for other reasons, but right here, we have a high profile situation of a guy being tortured to provide information he did not have.

unfortunately we will never know what other information he had or didnt have aside from the non-existent link to Iraq. Some people are strong and can really keep quiet.