China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

[chunky]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

^ oh really? of course. evidently they've done a shitty job conducting in the past; american auto has failed since the ending of the golden era, because they've relied solely (and horded) on petrol for designated production. that era peaked, and should've been over with in the 1950's... they deserve this. i'm just waiting on the government's plan on execution, and observing with precision on how they'll manage this shitstorm.

I think it will got the same way as MG Rover when they where taken over by The Phoenix Group, after BMW took everything they wanted. They where so far behind in development of a new model they where never going to catch up. I had to go into MG Rover and train some of their employees, for a company that was in trouble they where fairly belligerent and they had the poorest quality control I've ever seen. They where building parts for us Honda UK and we where using the grade A parts and our rejects where going on their own cars.

[Miroslav]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

I can't really see how the Government think they will turn it around. For the company to survive thay will have to change their whole operation, from Designing and building models that customers want. Implementing loads of redevelopment and changing the mind set of the employees. Its very hard to compete against other manufacturers that have a stronger reputation and are a lot more competitive in the market.

Keep in mind that the government is not going to be running this in the sense that they will all be sitting in the board room making decisions on how much to produce, what models to make, how much to spend on direct to consumer marketing,etc. I expect the government will be a largely passive investor, providing only certain up-front guidelines for continued financial support but leaving the actual running of the company to private business professionals. And those professionals will presumably try to do just what you're suggesting: they will radically change everything, since they will no longer be held back by all of the legacy contracts and legal obligations that saddled the organization for decades.

I'm not saying this is desireable or ideal, but it is different from the government literally trying to run an auto manufacturer like under Communism.

[Shpira]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

I'm not saying this is desirable or ideal, but it is different from the government literally trying to run an auto manufacturer like under Communism.

this

[runningman]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

Ya and to think that the "legacy cost" just means that hundreds of thousands of Americans won't get their pensions after going through the grind for 35 years..... At least the CEO's of the world are still making money..

The Depression has begun. GM didn't go bankkrupt in 1929 so we can accept that this is going to be a much worse depression.

[Miroslav]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

The Depression has begun. GM didn't go bankkrupt in 1929 so we can accept that this is going to be a much worse depression.

You can't logically make this conclusion just by looking at one isolated incident of what happens to an auto manufacturer (even if a big one).

If you use other benchmarks, you will see that many other worse things happened in the Great Depression that haven't happen this time.

[runningman]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

yes I can.. Tell me when then Miro??

What will be your trigger?? Or are you an after the fact kind of guy??

When did you admit that we were in a recession?

[Miroslav]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

yes I can..

Not really. You're trying to determine and forecast aggregate national trends (i.e., whether we're in a depression and how severe such a depression will be) by looking at ONE isolated data point (i.e., GM's bankruptcy). If you want to make more reliable predictions regarding aggregate trends, you need to collect and analyze aggregate information.

What will be your trigger?? Or are you an after the fact kind of guy??

If you're talking about economic depression, my trigger will be the duration and severity of decline as seen in consecutive quarter real GDP data, which is the most commonly used benchmark by economists. As I mentioned in the other thread, the final assessment IS by definition "after the fact".

When did you admit that we were in a recession?

What do you mean? Per the most commonly accepted definition (see above), we've been in a recession for damn well near a year now. We've had more than 2 consecutive quarters of real GDP decline. It's old news by now.

[runningman]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

when I was the first one saying recession I was a nut job and you were sitting on the fence just like you are now.

Awaiting 4 years of data is great but it isn't going to do anything for us now. The depression is upon us my friend. The US dollar crisis is what will really kick it in high gear.

[Miroslav]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

when I was the first one saying recession I was a nut job and you were sitting on the fence just like you are now.

Do a search of this subforum and you will find a thread by me predicting recession and the potential for hyperinflation even earlier than you first ever even brought up the topic.

Awaiting 4 years of data is great but it isn't going to do anything for us now.

No. But then again, neither will panic and doom and gloom prognostications.

[runningman]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

ok Miro but when will you belive we are in a depression?

[floridaorange]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

[Miroslav]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

ok Miro but when will you belive we are in a depression?

Since I'm sticking with the most commonly accepted benchmark, I'd say that if we are at the end of Q1 2010 with no sign of recovery (meaning we have the data to see continuous and even worsening real GDP decline throughout all of 2009), then I'll tend to agree that we are likely on our way to what will end up being called an economic depression some day.

But really, I'd like to stress that whatever we call it is really largely semantics... 15% official unemployment in cities is of course bad (real unemployment is probably even higher than that), and the reality of peoples' hardship is what it is regardless of whether you call it a depression or a really bad recession. Japan technically wasn't considered in a depression by many in the 1990s and they had a whole decade of economic stagnation.

[toasty]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

GM didn't go bankkrupt in 1929 so we can accept that this is going to be a much worse depression.

You can't logically make this conclusion just by looking at one isolated incident of what happens to an auto manufacturer (even if a big one).

Miro is 1000% right here. I'm not going to get into the "are we or are we not in a depression" debate with you for a host of reasons, the primary one being that I just don't think it matters at this point what you call the current economic climate because it is what it is, but from a deductive reasoning standpoint, your statement just makes me want to cry. The fact that GM didn't go bankrupt in 1929 and they have now means this is going to be worse? I don't even know where to begin. This has to be trolling...

[runningman]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

depression for sure.. not trolling at all. You heard it here first.

[Miroslav]

Re: China Made GM cars Sold to US in 2 Years

^^ maybe. But the point is that since your argument is not really logically sound, if your statement ends up being right, it will have been due to coincidence (and frankly, you naturally have better odds of being right today than at any point in the last half a century).

It's like if I said that it will rain tomorrow because I saw a cloud in the sky this afternoon. If it does actually rain tomorrow, it will reflect much more on luck than on the quality of my weather forecasting abilities.