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different culture I would say...and yes some nations do see him as legitimate to an extent that at least they think his people don't want to rebel against him
TheIdiotsAREWinning.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."
Mark Twain
^^ Here's my fear, though: the nations and people that generally see him as legitimate and as "culturally ok" are the same ones that think it's normal to force everyone to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, to beat people if they express different opinions, to heavily censor information for anything "anti-Islamic", and to burn a woman's face with acid if she doesn't want to wear a veil in public. Therefore, I don't see them as very legitimate, either.
I'm not that much of a cultural relativist. I don't think those behaviors are ever ok in any culture at any time in the world. I think they are simply malicious and barbaric. In that sense, most Islam-centric nations have a lot to long way to go before they ever join the civilized 21st century civilized world, where the rest of us have already realized that granting basic freedoms to people is actually a preferable thing.
its never organic...believe me I come from a country that had a revolution less than 10 years ago...its never organic.That said it doesn't mean that its wrong i.e. that it won't be good for the people. Anyway if you read Iran's history they had a revolution just 30 years ago to get rid of a US backed dictator...so its not that strange.
During the Cold War you either sided with USSR or USA. He sided with USA....
^^ Here's my fear, though: the nations and people that generally see him as legitimate and as "culturally ok" are the same ones that think it's normal to force everyone to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca, to beat people if they express different opinions, to heavily censor information for anything "anti-Islamic", and to burn a woman's face with acid if she doesn't want to wear a veil in public. Therefore, I don't see them as very legitimate, either.
I'm not that much of a cultural relativist. I don't think those behaviors are ever ok in any culture at any time in the world. I think they are simply malicious and barbaric. In that sense, most Islam-centric nations have a lot to long way to go before they ever join the civilized 21st century civilized world, where the rest of us have already realized that granting basic freedoms to people is actually a preferable thing.
Not only those nations...don't forget that Russia sold both weapons and nuclear energy technology to Iran...without Russia's support Iran would have been most likely invaded near the same time as Iraq...
Now on the other hand it is becoming apparent that in order to stay in power he may have to use force against his people which no matter the circumstances has not been the case before.
TheIdiotsAREWinning.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."
Mark Twain
I'll tell you what, as a guy who is really into politics and voter behavior, watching the fallout from this election is positively fascinating to me. I'm bummed that the coverage is so limited -- it seems like most of the networks just repeat the same thing over and over again because they are so constrained in what they can broadcast, and one can only follow the #iranelection twitter feed for so long before your eyes start to glass over.
The most comprehensive source I've seen is Nico Pitney's live blog on the Huffington Post -- he seems to cull out the most interesting and/or significant developments -- but it would be nice to have some info from other sources as well. Is anyone aware of any other good sources for info on what is going on?
I was disappointed to see Khameni take such a hard line this morning, primarily, because it suggests that there could be a lot of blood shed going forward.
I'll tell you what, as a guy who is really into politics and voter behavior, watching the fallout from this election is positively fascinating to me. I'm bummed that the coverage is so limited -- it seems like most of the networks just repeat the same thing over and over again because they are so constrained in what they can broadcast, and one can only follow the #iranelection twitter feed for so long before your eyes start to glass over.
The most comprehensive source I've seen is Nico Pitney's live blog on the Huffington Post -- he seems to cull out the most interesting and/or significant developments -- but it would be nice to have some info from other sources as well. Is anyone aware of any other good sources for info on what is going on?
I was disappointed to see Khameni take such a hard line this morning, primarily, because it suggests that there could be a lot of blood shed going forward.
from the live blog posted above, a blog post from an opposition supporter:
"I will participate in the demonstrations tomorrow. Maybe they will turn violent. Maybe I will be one of the people who is going to get killed. I'm listening to all my favorite music. I even want to dance to a few songs. I always wanted to have very narrow eyebrows. Yes, maybe I will go to the salon before I go tomorrow! There are a few great movie scenes that I also have to see. I should drop by the library, too. It's worth to read the poems of Forough and Shamloo again. All family pictures have to be reviewed, too. I have to call my friends as well to say goodbye. All I have are two bookshelves which I told my family who should receive them. I'm two units away from getting my bachelors degree but who cares about that. My mind is very chaotic. I wrote these random sentences for the next generation so they know we were not just emotional and under peer pressure. So they know that we did everything we could to create a better future for them. So they know that our ancestors surrendered to Arabs and Mongols but did not surrender to despotism. This note is dedicated to tomorrow's children..."
Unfortunately, this revolution will likely not last long nor change anything in Iran in the near term. The military is in Adhmadinejad's control, and they will stop at nothing to crush people who go too far and forcefully reign everyone back in line. And the rest of the world is unlikely to intervene.
Can't remember where I read it, but Ami is using the Revolutionary Guard to suppress the protests, not the regular army because he is in fact afraid that the latter will side with the Iranian citizens. Seems to me quite a sign of him being afraid of losing control, and if the army would decide to do so it would tell everyting about his legitimacy base in Iran...wich would appear to be virtually nonexistent outside the ultra-conservative group.
the police/military/militias/general gun toting follower of islam have begun violently breaking up the demonstrations today, as reported by BBC this morning.
Gonna be interesting now that fanatics are saying they have control, the people are saying no, and the mlitary is intervening.
your life is an occasion, rise to it.
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download that. deep shit listed there
It's also gonna be interesting to see wether the ones protesting for freedom are willing to take this as far as is needed...but the times have changed since for example the French Revolution -the state that has to be overthrown is in posession of far heavier means of coercion these days than was the case back then. Which makes a Revolution today much harder to achieve, at the cost of more human lives as well I'm afraid.
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