Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

[res0nat0r]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

I love Forest Whitaker and most everything he does, and also loved his character on The Shield. I am late to this movie and have heard both sides of the story, I am going to check it out, I can dig the undertones and can not fault it for that if I know thats how the movie is geared. Mulholland Drive anyone? After watching that, then reading about wtf I just saw, and watching again, that is an amazing flick, so maybe this could be the same.

FYI: Highsteppa I love your commentary and keep it up, 1000x better than anything I come up with after all the flicks I watch every week.

[Highsteppa]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

I understand what you're saying about what was intended by the makers of the movie but from an average movie goer's perspective, a movie shouldn't be a 120 minute session of video and sound, it should be a truly immersive experience. the average joe shouldn't be expected to research a movie before watching it. it is the responsibility of the producers/directors to ensure nothing is left "up in the air". even if presumptions or undertones need to be made, they must be presented throughout the movie so moviegoers know exactly what is on the the producers mind. take for example the role leonardo dicaprio played in blood diamond. he was an aggressive, conniving, rhodesian accent speaking angry soldier and it isn't until he reveals what happened to his parents that it totally fits together how and why he's doing what he's doing and why he's got his agenda.

Okay, but that's a very mainstream film (Blood Diamond) which you're comparing to something that was described as art house when it was released (Ghost Dog). The intentions and the technique that each director has is very different from one another. Blood Diamond is designed through and through to be a multiplex movie and is very traditional with how it's made, and therefore it's made and marketed with the audience that would expect a beginning, middle and end with very few, if any loose ends to be tied up. When it comes to something art house, the director and producer might not feel or even want to feed the audience everything, and even major studio, very mainstream movies leave loose ends on purpose in order to advance the feel of the movie over the story - think about the briefcase in Pulp Fiction or the same thing in Ronin. Alfred Hitchcock said (quite correctly) that you really don't need to know what's in the briefcase - it's the fact that everyone wants the briefcase that makes it so much more interesting, especially when you don't ever tell them what's in it. Even films like They Live with the conclusion of the film showing everything being revealed to humanity, the question you're left with is "now what?".

Art house films try to push the boundaries of narrative often, leaving the audience to figure out what they're going to take away from it when it's over. Even Stanley Kubrick was pretty notorious for leaving some of his films extremely open ended, some might say even unfinished with films like 2001: A Space Odyssey and Full Metal Jacket - they don't always follow a common storytelling narrative that has a clear beginning, middle and end.

yes there were quotes from the The Hagakure but most watching ghost dog wouldn't know the significance of it to being a samurai or even why the words from the text were introduced in the first place. we shouldn't be expected to pay to watch a the movie and then be expected to research it as well, just so that a bad movie can be well credited and we can level with the producers to appreciate how they intended to make it.

Maybe that's not what you're looking for in a film, but there is an audience out there that does - think about how openly Quentin Tarantino "samples" from other films with ideas or even scenes or settings. There's a ton of people out there that go out and look for the films that he borrows from, simply out of curiosity, which is why you get a flood of DVD releases for those films when people start to identify what he's taking from. Movies like Lady Snowblood when Kill Bill came out, or the original movie that Inglorious Basterds was based on. Some people want their movie going experience to be a learning experience, but again, it depends on the audience it's going after. Jim Jarmusch isn't exactly a mainstream filmmaker - see Coffee and Cigarettes as an example of him simply putting a bunch of people together in a series of vignettes/skits and basing it around a theme that's reflected in the title, and I think that maybe you might have gotten a bit of the wrong impression or mindset because this was an art house movie that managed to cross over a bit into the mainstream.

just like most old school djs don't relate to people mixing sets on computers with software, most people who have watched samurai movies/movies about warriors come to have a certain level of expectation from a warrior (especially in the case of a samurai). whittaker didn't fit the part on so many levels, he stole cars, used guns, wasn't physically fit for the role, I mean no part of him even related to being a samurai other than the scene where he's swinging the sword on the terrace. even then, you can easily make out he was struggling with the moves. heck they could've even spiffed up the plot by introducing worthy opponents but nearly all of his opponents were in their 60's? and what was the deal with trying to whack him? just cause he made the girl be a witness to his first job? so many things weren't immediate.

Well, that might not fit your idea of a Samurai, but then again, the Samurai is a bit of a romanticized image - people figure that they're nobility (they're not - they're servants/vassals, like Ghost Dog was), that they were law abiding (again, they usually weren't - they just had the Daimyo's/Lord backing by name alone and were just as capable of abusing their appointed authority like anyone else in any age) and that they exclusively used swords (again, they didn't - it was a prime weapon and a symbol of their authority and profession, but they used a whole arsenal of weapons like the daikyu/long bow, naginata/long spear/pole arm and a variety of others).

The fact that Ghost Dog was working for the mafia showed that he was working in a very similar structure in this day and age that the samurai did back in the feudal era of Japan - mafia dons weren't that different from Daimyo's of Japan. They ruled over certain territories, collected taxes from the people that lived under their rule and often had the final say over the law of the land that they ruled over, contested only by a higher authority in the hierarchy - the goodfellas/wiseguys were pretty much similar to the samurai in the sense that they carried out the orders of their bosses, and followed a code of conduct - for the samurai, it was the bushido code, I'm not sure of the actual term for the code that the mafia observe.

unfortunately, the "samurai" in this movie was just another delusional mercenary who believed he was a legendary japanese fighter but couldn't carry out the part, which is why the movie has turned out the way it has.

And that's the jab of the movie - you're seeing a guy who is viewed by others as delusional, but he still follows the code rigidly that the samurai does in his conduct and a sense of honor.

[Kamal]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

Okay, but that's a very mainstream film (Blood Diamond) which you're comparing to something that was described as art house when it was released (Ghost Dog). The intentions and the technique that each director has is very different from one another. Blood Diamond is designed through and through to be a multiplex movie and is very traditional with how it's made, and therefore it's made and marketed with the audience that would expect a beginning, middle and end with very few, if any loose ends to be tied up. When it comes to something art house, the director and producer might not feel or even want to feed the audience everything, and even major studio, very mainstream movies leave loose ends on purpose in order to advance the feel of the movie over the story - think about the briefcase in Pulp Fiction or the same thing in Ronin. Alfred Hitchcock said (quite correctly) that you really don't need to know what's in the briefcase - it's the fact that everyone wants the briefcase that makes it so much more interesting, especially when you don't ever tell them what's in it. Even films like They Live with the conclusion of the film showing everything being revealed to humanity, the question you're left with is "now what?".

Art house films try to push the boundaries of narrative often, leaving the audience to figure out what they're going to take away from it when it's over. Even Stanley Kubrick was pretty notorious for leaving some of his films extremely open ended, some might say even unfinished with films like 2001: A Space Odyssey and Full Metal Jacket - they don't always follow a common storytelling narrative that has a clear beginning, middle and end.

Wow of course imo, those are some rather far reaching parallels to draw, especially with Ronin which was in an entirely different league. More than the briefcase, (for me) Ronin's mysterious draw more was DeNiro's character and his mysterious background. He pretty much carried the entire movie solo on his shoulders. What part of Ronin can you draw a parallel to Ghost Dog? I'm asking cause I've evidently clearly missed it.

Moreover, I acknowledge that the unsaid/unshown specifics in a movie bring out its mystery, but what in Ghost Dog is it? Yes Whittaker has chosen the Samurai lifestyle and other than reading the book and the sword swinging scene, what in your opinion does he do was reminiscent of being a Samurai?

Maybe that's not what you're looking for in a film, but there is an audience out there that does - think about how openly Quentin Tarantino "samples" from other films with ideas or even scenes or settings. There's a ton of people out there that go out and look for the films that he borrows from, simply out of curiosity, which is why you get a flood of DVD releases for those films when people start to identify what he's taking from. Movies like Lady Snowblood when Kill Bill came out, or the original movie that Inglorious Basterds was based on. Some people want their movie going experience to be a learning experience, but again, it depends on the audience it's going after. Jim Jarmusch isn't exactly a mainstream filmmaker - see Coffee and Cigarettes as an example of him simply putting a bunch of people together in a series of vignettes/skits and basing it around a theme that's reflected in the title, and I think that maybe you might have gotten a bit of the wrong impression or mindset because this was an art house movie that managed to cross over a bit into the mainstream.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT my movie experience to be a learning one. But I expect to learn from the movie itself, I don't want to come back from the movie, head to the internet to learn what The Hagakure is. Instead of wasting 80% of movie time showing Whittaker strolling the streets, it would've been so much easier to have introduced scenes that drew parallels to the Samurai lifestyle and bettered Whittaker's character.

Well, that might not fit your idea of a Samurai, but then again, the Samurai is a bit of a romanticized image - people figure that they're nobility (they're not - they're servants/vassals, like Ghost Dog was), that they were law abiding (again, they usually weren't - they just had the Daimyo's/Lord backing by name alone and were just as capable of abusing their appointed authority like anyone else in any age) and that they exclusively used swords (again, they didn't - it was a prime weapon and a symbol of their authority and profession, but they used a whole arsenal of weapons like the daikyu/long bow, naginata/long spear/pole arm and a variety of others).

The fact that Ghost Dog was working for the mafia showed that he was working in a very similar structure in this day and age that the samurai did back in the feudal era of Japan - mafia dons weren't that different from Daimyo's of Japan. They ruled over certain territories, collected taxes from the people that lived under their rule and often had the final say over the law of the land that they ruled over, contested only by a higher authority in the hierarchy - the goodfellas/wiseguys were pretty much similar to the samurai in the sense that they carried out the orders of their bosses, and followed a code of conduct - for the samurai, it was the bushido code, I'm not sure of the actual term for the code that the mafia observe.

I never said they were noble or law-abiding. They were warriors who did what their masters instructed them to even if it was illegal/immoral. But, amongst Samurais, they had codes of conduct/honor and were an elite class of warriors. What in the movie did you feel Whittaker (or the producers) bought out that glorified this? Other than the quotes throughout the movie and again, Whittaker was reading a book on the ways of the samurai at the beginning, for me, nothing in the movie introduced or even represented the Samurai Lifestyle. That mixed with the fact that perhaps an out-of-shape guy being a Samurai would be like taking a Double Decker bus to the races.

And that's the jab of the movie - you're seeing a guy who is viewed by others as delusional, but he still follows the code rigidly that the samurai does in his conduct and a sense of honor.

"rigidly...sense of honor". You saw it in the movie, I didn't at all, we'll just agree to disagree

[PROG]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

Death Note

watch it on Hulu

[floridaorange]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

Has anyone seen "Out Cold"?

Was it funny?

[res0nat0r]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

aint heard of it. digging up old zack galifianakis flicks are we?

[nick007]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

[QUOTE=res0nat0r;877535]. Mulholland Drive anyone? After watching that, then reading about wtf I just saw, and watching again, that is an amazing flick, so maybe this could be the same.

Watched it about a month ago and really enjoyed it again. Nice to see all the good solid actors again

[floridaorange]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

aint heard of it. digging up old zack galifianakis flicks are we?

almost.

...a friend of mine recommended it after we discussed "dinner with the schmucks."

[res0nat0r]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

cool...never even heard of that one in passing until you mentioned it yesterday....probably pretty bleh, but you never know.

[dusk]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

Death Note

watch it on Hulu

Seriously how strange was this movie??

Could not stop watching right till the end and then wham I almost lost it (if it has ended any other way)

Sitting through all 3 parts was torture though.

[mnbvcxz]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

Big Trouble In Little China

[res0nat0r]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

^i love that movie.

[res0nat0r]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

[nick007]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

The girl next door, watched it again last night - love that movie!

[Shpira]

Re: Highly Recommended (and overlooked) Movies

Not the best film IMO but worth the watch for the historical value...and to put cinematography into context.