Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

[runningman]

The town halls for healthcare that have been happening across the US have been a mess to say the least. The American people are waking up to the idea that the US gov't is not working for the American people. The town halls have been met with boos' and heckling.
Footage below.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UonyBfwQaio[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn71-wNccsw[/YOUTUBE]

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

yep, good'ol philadelphia, saw these already...pretty standard actually.



Good to see people taking some kind of action, I whole-heartedly agree.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Actually, I don't agree with it. And it has nothing to do with my opinion on health care.

Town halls should really be about open debate on the issues, not through heckling and shouting down your opponents. I would much rather see intelligent pro and con debate than brainless patriotism and thug-like behavior.

And don't think that this is some "grass roots" thing that is spontaneously occurring out there; I bet you anything there is a lot of organization to this by coalitions of conservative groups who are emboldened by the attention this is now receiving in the media and on the internet. This is a well-known tactic (made a lot easier through mobile technology), and Democrats would probably be doing something similar if Republicans were in power and were trying to make some big change.

[toasty]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

And don't think that this is some "grass roots" thing that is spontaneously occurring out there; I bet you anything there is a lot of organization to this by coalitions of conservative groups who are emboldened by the attention this is now receiving in the media and on the internet. This is a well-known tactic (made a lot easier through mobile technology), and Democrats would probably be doing something similar if Republicans were in power and were trying to make some big change.

Daily Show had a thing on this last night, actually. Many of the rallying cries you hear are lifted, verbatim, from Fox News personalities' suggestions.

[Lorn]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOLs7Cybnqw[/youtube]



Hmmm....I don't know you two. This one certainly seems like real citizens to me. They are emotional and they are frustrated. I'm talking about the people in the town hall meeting not the ones outside.

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Actually, I don't agree with it. And it has nothing to do with my opinion on health care.

Town halls should really be about open debate on the issues, not through heckling and shouting down your opponents. I would much rather see intelligent pro and con debate than brainless patriotism and thug-like behavior.

And don't think that this is some "grass roots" thing that is spontaneously occurring out there; I bet you anything there is a lot of organization to this by coalitions of conservative groups who are emboldened by the attention this is now receiving in the media and on the internet. This is a well-known tactic (made a lot easier through mobile technology), and Democrats would probably be doing something similar if Republicans were in power and were trying to make some big change.

Ya maybe or maybe they are just pissed..

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Ya maybe or maybe they are just pissed..

I'm sure they are pissed. After all, the folks behind this are mostly partisan conservatives whose ideas ruled the country for nearly eight years and now find themselves on the other side looking in as Democrats wield power.

But I just think these kinds of antics are ultimately not a productive way to move forward on the complex question of health care reform.

[toasty]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Hmmm....I don't know you two. This one certainly seems like real citizens to me. They are emotional and they are frustrated. I'm talking about the people in the town hall meeting not the ones outside.

Not saying they aren't real people, because there are certainly real people that have legitimate concerns about the health care proposal. What I'm suggesting is that perhaps this isn't as organic as some news outlets would suggest. There is a difference between individual citizens showing up to voice their concerns and an organized group converging upon these town halls, and I think what you're seeing is more akin to the latter option.

Clearly there is organized opposition to the current health care proposal -- nothing wrong with that, btw -- but let's not pretend that all of these folks just happened to show up. That's the point, not that these people are actors or something.

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Toasty nothing is organic now a days.. The Obama movement wasn't organic. The Iran election rioters weren't organic. So why would this be any different?

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." -Noam Chomsky

[toasty]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Toasty nothing is organic now a days.. The Obama movement wasn't organic. The Iran election rioters weren't organic. So why would this be any different?

Not expecting it to be any different, but that is exactly the story that is coming from Fox and other right-wing news outlets.

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

um...

townhalls typically don't have heckling and shouting...

that is the very point of this thread...they are turing into a "town mess..."

it's gotten to that point.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

^^ I think the real point is to ask: why are they turning into a "town mess" (or better said, who is turning them into that)?

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

^ever heard of a collective conscious? I've worked in both politics and insurance, people are legitimately pissed off...notice I said people, not dems or repubs or independents. Asking why at this juncture...well I think it kind of insults these peoples intelligence.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

^ever heard of a collective conscious? I've worked in both politics and insurance, people are legitimately pissed off...notice I said people, not dems or repubs or independents. Asking why at this juncture...well I think it kind of insults their intelligence.

To me, the insulting thing is insinuating that these hecklers represent the "collective consciousness" of the nation. With 300 million plus people in this nation? I'm skeptical of that. If Americans really were so wholeheartedly united against Obama and his "socialist" agenda, then why did McCain lose the last election? And why was there no heckling and protesting when Bush started the bailouts?

To me, they represent one particular perspective on the issue, and there are others as well - even if they're not shouting as loudly at this moment.

[toasty]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Toasty nothing is organic now a days.. The Obama movement wasn't organic.

Actually, I do kinda have to take issue with that. Obama's campaign was ultimately a model of organization and mobilization, but I can tell you first hand that it really did start out very grassroots, at least here in St. Louis. I attended the very first meeting (and was a charter member) of the St. Louis for Obama group, which was about two dozen strangers, none of whom were affiliated with the campaign in a formal way. We had a number of meetings like that, put together a number of lo-fi events (like a Barack-A-Q, where I smoked up around 45 pounds of pork shoulder), etc. until the official campaign folks came in and essentially used our infrastructure and volunteer base to run the campaign.

Some of the people that I met at that very first meeting ended up being paid staffers for the campaign, and many of us went on to hold non-paid positions in various Obama-focused groups, but at the outset and really up until about a week or so before Tsunami Tuesday during the primaries, there was no "official" Obama presence in St. Louis, just the group of us that had met in an apartment complex's common room on evening a year earlier, and the volunteers we'd recruited since then.